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Donald Trump since 2017…Open Thread for 8/21/2023…..

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What fucking mess the guy leaves…..

Would Anyone Believe You?

Jonathan Last wants to pretend we could go back in time, to January 2017, and tell people that in six years:

  • Trump will have been impeached twice.
  • He will have been found guilty of rape by a jury of his peers.
  • He will have been soundly defeated for re-election, but refused to concede the loss.
  • In an effort to remain in power he will put in motion a vast conspiracy to overturn the result through extralegal methods.
  • When this conspiracy fails he will incite a violent insurrection in which he directs his armed supporters to invade the Capitol and prevent the certification of Electoral College votes.
  • He will be indicted in four separate criminal cases.
  • He will seek a return to the White House explicitly for the stated purpose of “retribution.”
  • And he will be leading the Republican field by >30 points.

“My point is that six years ago I don’t think many people on either side would have believed that today’s reality was likely. Or even possible. Yet here we are, actually living in something close to the worst-case scenario.

“And yet we are so habituated to this dark reality that we’ve come to see it as normal.”

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      • Morning……….

        GOPer’s debate tonight in Wisconsin of all places.,,,..

        Trump FOURTH Arrest tomorrow

            • CG on the American political ‘mood’ on the Right…..

              Now, many anti-establishment forces in our country seem to have found a home on the right and in the base of the once “elite” Republican Party. This is not to say that many left-wingers also do not continue to criticize American life in their songs either.

              There is a lot of anti-establishment attitudes going around these days. Free speech and wanting to make positive change in America is always a good thing, but the entire cultural zeitgeist of America seems pretty foreboding these days.

              During the debate, Mike Pence argued with Vivek Ramaswamy about the national mood of the country. Pence (stealing a line from Jimmy Carter) said that Americans get along pretty well and just need “a government as good as our people.” Ramaswamy took the opposite position and agreed with the dark and dystopian view of America held by the Trump base and talked about how people no longer believe in America. I would like to think that Pence is right. At some level I think he is, but it really does feel like our nation is a tinderbox these days….

              More…

                • Suarez suspends presidential campaign

                  Miami Mayor Francis Suarez (R) announced Tuesday he’s suspending his campaign for the White House.
                  “Running for President of the United States has been one of the greatest honors of my life,” Suarez said in a release announcing the move, adding, “It was a privilege to come so close to appearing on stage with the other candidates at last week’s first debate.”

                  More…

  2. Good morning…….

    A read of the media 12 hours after the debate and Trump’s feable attempt to divert attention from the debate finds ALL the attention on the debate and two guys who everyone thinks have NO chance….

    Things will be a disjointed free for all until Trump gets arrested for the FOURTH time later today,….

    U will be getting the gavel to gavel breathless cover across the media for that…

    If you step back for a moment?

    You see the effect on the media and Republicans of a guy who is egotistical and operating in a alternate universe…….

    And?

    His shadow extends across a wide part of America right now as the guy wrestles with a system of government that is already taking bites out his big ass……

    Stay tuned…

    The spectacle will continue unabated…..

  3. Good Morning Afternoon everyone…….

    Not so good for Trump & Co…….

    Willis IS MASHING them suckers HARD……

    There is NOT gonna be all of them tried together….

    There ARE gonna be a shit load of Trump related trials starting in a few months thru next year….

  4. Past Haley,present Haley,future Haley;They’re all constructs ,all creations .malleable,negotiable,tethered not to dependable principle but to reliable opportunism.Thats the truth of her.That’s the hell of her.

    Columnist Frank Bruni

    As good a description of Nikki Haley as I have ever heard.

  5. Donald Trump IS Scared

    Trump Posts More than 30 Video Rants in One Day

    “Donald Trump went absolutely buck wild online Wednesday, posting more than 30 angry videos railing against his 2020 opponent Joe Biden, the Department of Justice, Democrats in general, Fox News, special prosecutor Jack Smith, Rupert Murdoch, and his own attorney general Bill Barr, among others,” the Daily Beast reports.

  6. I’ve been waiting for this.

    According to Political Wire top Republican donors are seeking more “details” on Tim Scott’s marital status.

    A few years ago Scott was seen squiring an Hispanic woman around town.

    There’s only been one bachelor President,James Buchanan who is widely viewed by historians as the worst President in America’s history.

  8. According to the Wall Street Journal,Trump has EXPANDED his lead for the Republican President nomination.Republicans OVERWHELMINGLY see his criminal prosecutions as “lacking merit and about half say the indictments fuel their support for him.”Indeed Trump “has no formidable challenger .

    WSJ describes what was once a two man race ( between Trump and DeSantis ) “…has COLLAPSED into a lopsided contest in which Trump,for now, has no formidable challenger.”

    Readers here should remember this the next time our moderator declares his well known “drip drip” foolishness every time some poll shows .1 % decline in his support.”

    • Good try Jack……..

      The Right leaning WSJ trys the sell

      In a post here by FiveThirtyEight and others i have featured?

      The quiet deep dive points to Trump support slowing among the faithful and even more among the nation’s voters…..

      Keep peddling the GOP booster line…..

      Yes he’s their main man…..

      But his legal increasingly desperate rants points to a man who KNOWS that his battle against the System IS ripping a piece out of ass and support every day……

      He ain’t gonna get his old first government job back even if Joe Biden doesn’t want to reslly get out and campaign like he should….

      • Bad try dork.

        I am talking about the Republican NOMINATION,not the election ,which would be obvious to anyone who understands basic English.

        Despite your well known obfuscation and indecipherable writings?

        Trump remains the OVERWHELMING choice of Republicans as amusingly you seem to concede(“Yes hes their main man”)

  10. Another contrary view from the line here which is that Trump support among Republicans is dropping significantly…

    “GOP voters see Biden as eminently beatable ,and they think most Americans see him as they do.Given that,most Republicans aren’t looking to be rescued from Donald Trump.The fact is the REALLY DO LIKE HIM(emphasis added) and at this point they think he’s their best shot.”
    Kristen Anderson
    New York Times

    Readers here would do well to remember this next time we view one of these headlines about how Trump support among Republicans is declining because some poll ( often by outfits you’ve never heard of) declare such is the case because he has fallen like 1% in support.

    • i’ll post the piece on Trump’likes’ more than a year out from the November election when Trump is a guy who has been arrested FOUR times but not a convicted felon…….

      YET……..

      Trump’s approval among Republicans has also dropped……

      As U would point out Jack
      Different post from friendly and unfriendly outfits have different numbers….

      All that said?

      The trend line is and has been DOWNWARD…

      Donald J. Trump ain’t getting his first government job back….

      • Anderson is correct

        The Hardline MAGA supporter’s ARE going jail for the asshole…..

        They’ve drank the Kool Aid

        And for Trump?

        They are expendable…..

  11. James you living in alternate reality…WSJ poll just showed 46% to 46% in a hypothetical between Trump and Biden…4 Indictments and all…

    Trumps numbers staying steady in Republican quarters, never dropping below 50% and the nearest competitor at a measly 14%…

    Wake up…your belief that the the Republican People won’t go for a four time indicted presidential candidate is just that, your belief, not a fact and not really grounded in what people are feeling…Republicans have whipped up this anger and fear for decades…and it is not going away, it is only exponentially increasing…Trump is an expression of that anger…plus he is a master of using it…cause we both know he would never want to really associate with the deplorable that support him so fiercely…

    • I was going to compose a refutation to James’s comments of last evening.

      The above comment says it all .

      So I have nothing to add except to totally associate myself with it.

      • I agree completely with the two comments above and would add that’s there is giant element of hate involved too.

        Fear breeds hate. The Republican Party has been selling this cocktail of fear and resentment since the passage of the Civil Rights Act.

        One thing is certain, a Republican can always find someone to make the general public afraid of.

    • Come on guys!

      I haven’t said Trump doesn’t own the nomination RIGHT NOW…..

      I HAVE said his support HAS DROPPED and it HAS

      Jack was all about 80% back when

      It is no longer there

      Try 60% with the rest spreading out

      Not for DeSantis, eh?

      Over and over in the cross tabs u hear that GOPer like what Trump peddles bit some DO NOT like the style…….

      It’s there….

      Even if some gloss over it

      • In general Election…I believe Biden would win, but it could get real ugly…82 or however old he is…not a strong candidate against trump or any other Republican…but I think Trump’s baggage in a general election is a heavy lift maybe impossible for him…He is really the only guy that I think would excite the base to come out and turn out the vote in huge numbers…otherwise, Democratic numbers going to be low this time around…

        • I would rate Biden a slight favorite.

          What I have yet to see is a poll which would follow up on Republicans who claim to not support Trump or have an “unfavorable” opinion of him.They should then be asked,”Despite your unfavorable view of Trump, who will you vote for ,Biden or Trump?”

          My view?Around 85-90% of them will still vote for Trump.

          Remember a shift of around 70000 votes in several swing states in 2000 and Trump would have been re-elected despite losing substantially in the popular vote,mostly due to California.

          Despite what you read here?Trump could still win this election.In almost every poll Bidens “lead” is usually a couple of percent and well within the MOE.Accordingly,drawing any firm conclusions from such is foolish.

          • Good Morning….

            Glad to see we’re on the same page on the General Election…

            And YES…

            Joe Biden HAS to START CAMPAIGNING….

            Explianing why people should VOTE FOR HIM besides Donald Trump….

            • New CNN Poll findings…..

              Trump Maintains Broad Support Among GOP Voters

              Donald Trump continues to hold what has proven to be an unshakeable position atop the Republican field of candidates vying to take on President Biden next year, according to a new CNN poll.

              “Trump is the top choice for his party’s nomination at the traditional Labor Day start to a more engaged campaign season, ahead of his nearest rival by more than 30 percentage points (52% of Republicans and Republican-leaning independent voters support him, compared with 18% behind Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis). And Trump is broadly seen as best able to handle a wide range of issues.”

              …

              Manu Raju
              @mkraju
              CNN POLL August 25-31

              GOP VOTERS
              If True, Charges Against Trump Regarding
              Efforts To Overturn The 2020 Election:

              Disqualify him from presidency 13%
              Cast doubts on his fitness for job 19%
              Aren’t relevant to his fitness for job 68%

              • 52% support Trump in this poll…..

                68% say him being a conviced felon doesn’t disqualify from being fit for the job….

                A MAJORITY of Americans disagree with the last poll number…..

  12. How to make Tennessee competitive

    State Senator Gloria Johnson, of the “Tennessee Three,” has announced her run against Republican Senator Marsha Blackburn next year. The state has slipped away from Democrats since the days of Clinton and Gore, but there is a way to make it competitive. Granted, a steep road.

    Democrats already win Nashville and Memphis, but they need to dramatically cut into GOP margins in their suburbs. Win Hamilton County(Chattanooga) and Knox County(Knoxville) as opposed to just coming close. Holding Republicans to only a 3-1(versus the 5-1 they usually get) victory in Bradley County(Cleveland), an developing exurb of Chattanooga, would help efforts. Then the tough nut to Crack is the Ruby Red Tri Cities area(Bristol, Kingsport, Johnson City). Holding the Republicans to about a 2-1 margin there makes a big difference. Retain Bredesen 2018 margins elsewhere.

    With such limited offensive opportunities, it makes sense to make a play for reach targets like Tennessee and Mississippi. And an increased effort likely helps knock off the one Republican who won the gerrymandered House seat in Nashville.

      • With 24 shaping up to be a D landslide, I think Texas will go Democratic and Cruz also loses(offsetting an almost certain Manchin loss in WV). R officials have said on MANY occasions that they successfully stopped the state from going blue last time, and next year will be even more favorable to the Democrats than ’20 was.

        Remember, I’m the only one who saw D’s overperforming last year.

        • SE i sense that Democrats will over perform also…..

          The party could get lucky and own majorities in both Capitol Hill chambers along a Biden second term…..

          Of course that is NO guarantee of much….

          Minority procedural rule’s DO cause problems….

          Look at Tupperville

          Schumer won’t go around him….

          We’ll see

      • And I’m a lot more sanguine about the South going Democratic than a lot of people. There’s a path to victory in states not named Missouri and West Virginia if the dilapidated state parties and the national party actually put in the effort to register voters and good messaging in the Suburban areas.

        • On a state level for Southern politics?

          Don’t hold ur breath…..

          When Jack sees ur comments he’s likely to come down on u like a ton of bricks….

          Only Georgia has turned purple

          Not much of any place else

          • Long term it is worthwhile. With Florida, Ohio, Iowa, and Nevada swinging against us, Texas being slow to come around, and the fickle nature of Wisconsin(they did reelect traitor Ron Johnson, after all), expanding opportunities is definitely a worthwhile pursuit. Kansas(with the large share of Moderates who vote Republican) and the extra electoral vote around the capital of Nebraska and its own Suburbs are also realistic offensive opportunities. And I have actually looked at the numbers and the easiest places to get votes and juice turnout in the different states(an erstwhile hobby of mine, actually), unlike the boys in the bubble on this site.

          • This year’s Governors races in Mississippi and Louisiana will be a test case of my hypothesis that the activation of young voters could make these places(particularly Mississippi, with their already reasonably high floor of Democratic support) much more competitive and winnable than had ever been previously thought.

            • Alabama being more of a long term effort, as no Democrat has come close to winning one of the top ticket races since Don Siegelman had his stolen from him in 2002. Also the most racially polarized state in the country and the one with the most dysfunctional state Democratic Party, though maybe a greater effort at winning younger pools of voters of all races can shrink Republican margins.

          • Jack is right and I might add that the Democrats looked poised to pick up a House seat in Georgia, Alabama, and perhaps Louisiana.

            If people only thought before they typed.

            • Democrats will probably pick addtional seats in New York with a new map also….

              Certainly the Santos seat if he cuts a deal with the Feds and leaves the House and the Gov does a appointment before a Specail election

  13. I’m thinking that the Justice Department and Courts could find a way to make it possible to throw out the electoral votes of states that practice racial disenfranchisement vis a vis the ballot box. Maybe it will wake the Repugs up, or it will just make those states in question debate secession or, that other RWNJ fever dream, a Constitutional Convention.

    Interesting to consider the feasibility and consequences of such a move. Discuss.

  14. Newest member of the Domestic Terrorist wing of the Republican Party?

    Mike Huckabee .

    The former Governor of Arkansas and twice failed presidential candidate says that if Trump isn’t elected,it will be bullets instead of ballots.

    Remember when this fraud said in his first presidential run that he wasn’t mad at anybody?

    Now?

    He’s nothing but a bootlickin MAGA idiot.

    Get your gun ready Mike!

    • Joining Huckabee is well known right wing goofball Sarah Palin.

      She’s all upset that the “Proud Boys,”a group Republican hoodlums , are going to jail.

      Palin keeps popping up now and then with a mishmash of right wing garbage flowing out of her mouth.

      Her five minutes of “ fame” ended 15 years ago but the dumbass just won’t go away.

    • If the Left is looking for a candidate that isn’t spiraling like Williamson is, then they could get Cornel West to drop his Green Party candidacy and jump in her place in the D Primary, and benefit as the default candidate in Iowa and New Hampshire. Biden still steamrolls everywhere else on the way to the nomination, and he gets the majority of Green voters to his side in the General without a third party campaign of the visibility that West provided siphoning votes from Democrats. Tactically solid, benefitting the Left long term and getting Biden to adopt some of the positions the American people need from him.

      • West is a nobody…….

        He’s this time’s Bernie Sanders stand in…

        Jeez ?!

        Democrats have their own crazy knockoffs!

      • Oh definitely.

        I mention all candidates where possible, but a switcheroo with someone like JB Pritzker atop the ticket happens before Williamson or that crank RFK Jr wins.

  16. Tucker Carlson is now so desperate for attention that he’s revived the canard I used to parrot on here in honor of Timothy Leal, who also posted on and on about it: That President Obama had gay sex with some nobody named Larry Sinclair.

    None of that is true, the guy renownedly faked polygraph results. Even if it were, who cares? At least with Hunter Biden, another grossly overblown to the point of who gives a crap case, he is at least known to like his thrills and playing with both his guns. So there is at least a kernel of truth to work with, unlike the Sinclair-Obama trash.

    Considering this theory has lasted long past its expiration date, I have to wonder if that nobody is related to the Sinclair Broadcasting dynasty, one of the premier right wing media organizations.

    • REPUBLICANS have monopoly on talking and selling shit….

      The media EATS it up….

      Me and others are hoping and betting that in the END?

      People SHOULD come home to the REAL Reality that Doanld Trump pimped the GOPer’s for his OWN ego and power…..

      • Uhh, the Republicans have been the ones stirring the shit pot of fear for a hundred plus years now.

        Pimped the Republicans? More like gave them what they want!

        • Yes he did.

          James has been on this kick for years now.That the poor Republicans were somehow fooled into backing Trump and that one day they will come to their collective senses and all will be like it was prior to 2016.

          Horse manure!

          Trump is the epitome of what the Republican Party is all about.

          Lying, cheating, stealing.

          Anything to “get them libruls.”

    • Morning folks……

      The chorus keeps singing for Joe Biden to stand up and start swinging at Trump…..

      It’s what Trump excels at against others Cept judges….

      Stay tuned!

      • The secret in all of this going along with House GOPer’s is their efforts to do much of anything fall’s flat on their faces….

  18. Breaking

    Mark Meadows trail STAYS AS A STATE trial in Georgia…….

    Judges ain’t taking no shit….

    Will he flip?

      • Walter Isaacson’s biography of the billionaire entrepreneur depicts a mercurial “man-child” with grandiose ambitions and an ego to match.

        At various moments in “Elon Musk,” Walter Isaacson’s new biography of the world’s richest person, the author tries to make sense of the billionaire entrepreneur he has shadowed for two years — sitting in on meetings, getting a peek at emails and texts, engaging in “scores of interviews and late-night conversations.” Musk is a mercurial “man-child,” Isaacson writes, who was bullied relentlessly as a kid in South Africa until he grew big enough to beat up his bullies. Musk talks about having Asperger’s, which makes him “bad at picking up social cues.” As the people closest to him will attest, he lacks empathy — something that Isaacson describes as a “gene” that’s “hard-wired.”

        Yet even as Musk struggles to relate to the actual humans around him, his plans for humanity are grand. “A fully reusable rocket is the difference between being a single-planet civilization and being a multiplanet one”: Musk would “maniacally” repeat this message to his staff at SpaceX, his spacecraft and satellite company, where every decision is motivated by his determination to get earthlings to Mars. He pushes employees at his companies — he now runs six, including X, the platform formerly known as Twitter — to slash costs and meet brutal deadlines because he needs to pour resources into the moonshot of colonizing space “before civilization crumbles.” Disaster could come from climate change, from declining birthrates, from artificial intelligence. Isaacson describes Musk stalking the factory floor of Tesla, his electric car company, issuing orders on the fly. “If I don’t make decisions,” Musk explained, “we die.”….

        More…

      • CG should have wanted his commentary posted here.

        However, possibly, he was worried that the hundreds who come here everyday would not find his remarks as edifying as James’s always enlightening editorial comments which accompany the articles he posts.

        • I asked him several months ago back channel….

          I got no response ….

          If you post on social media one CAN assume you want to ‘share’ content…..

          If U do NOT….

          I request to NOT do would always be accepted…

          His piece’s ARE generally pretty good and thoughtful…..

          We don’t have to agree with everything posted….

          And by listed his link?

          We give him hits and yes…MORE exposure…..

          • Now I remember what Jack is referring to.

            It’s true that a while back (a few months ago or a few years ago), he asked James to pull his link off the list of links (Axios, Politico, etc.) that used to appear on the right-hand sidebar.

            But there is now no such posted list (perhaps to make that sidebar easier to navigate), so that point is moot.

            And, of course, I’m not (no doubt to his great relief, as well as mine) James B.

            • He, he, he….

              Yea…..

              I DO have to dance from time to time….

              BUT?

              It IS worth it….

              I do REALLY like this place and U guys…….

    • Do you have CGs permission to run his commentary here?

      I ask because,if I recall correctly, at one point he declined James’s request to publish it here.

      If that’s still his wish,then I think it should be respected.

      • All I do is post a link to his own site. I presume he doesn’t want to keep it a dark secret.

        And his site does have a (moderated) comment function, so those responses that he wishes to publish can be made there rather than here.

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