On a Fox Cable News show the Democratic US Senator from West Virginia’s comment would mean that the second part of President Biden’s going BIG effort and ALL the Democratic add on’s (Progressives wish list) are just NOT gonna happen…
This IS a YUGE blow against Manchin’s party leader President Biden….
Manchin has been up front in being against the size of the Biden package…
Republican lawmakers are smiling….
So are some moderate Democrats….
We’ll have to see what happens going forward….
On would think that Biden and Democrats might try a ‘Hail Mary’ and strip parts out the bill to try and save whatever they can…..
Joe Manchin declared Sunday that he could not support President Joe Biden’s sweeping social and climate spending bill, striking a decisive blow to Democrats’ agenda.
The West Virginia Democrat bluntly said he is a “no” on the $1.7 trillion in an interview on “Fox News Sunday.”
Joe Manchin declared Sunday that he could not support President Joe Biden’s sweeping social and climate spending bill, striking a decisive blow to Democrats’ agenda.
The West Virginia Democrat bluntly said he is a “no” on the $1.7 trillion in an interview on “Fox News Sunday.”
…
In announcing his opposition, Manchin raised the same concerns about the bill that he’s had all along: inflation, rising debt and a mismatch between the package’s 10-year funding and its shorter-term programs. But until Sunday, Manchin had never taken a hard line on the legislation. In the past week, he’s spoken directly to Biden several times, with the president and other Democrats furiously lobbying him to support the bill.
With an evenly split Senate, Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer needs every Democrat to go along with the legislation, which only requires a simple majority vote. That dynamic gives Manchin enormous leverage over Biden’s agenda, allowing him to single-handedly sink a priority that Democrats have spent much of the year working on.
Manchin’s clear pronouncement that he opposes the legislation is a huge setback for Democrats, who tried to separate out Biden’s agenda into two bills to pass his jobs and families plan. Now, Manchin’s bipartisan infrastructure bill is law but the party-line effort to pour money into education, health care, climate change and tax reform is dead in its current form.
The news is a validation of progressive fears — they believed passing that infrastructure bill was a mistake without an explicit guarantee from all 50 Democratic senators to support the rest of Biden’s agenda. Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) said Sunday he “absolutely” wants to see a vote on the legislation….
…
If the bill ever comes to the floor, it won’t be for a few weeks. The Senate left town on Saturday morning for the holidays and won’t return until early January…
image…J. Scott Applewhite/AP Photo
I agree with ya Jack …..
Manchin has CLEARLY signaled that he’s NOT comfortable with the size of Biden’s bill’s….
I have read that he’s actually not alone among some Democrats in ‘swing’ states…
Biden has used the Progressives to help him thru the House….
But that is counter productive to the Senate as u point out Jack…
I don’t think the whole thing is gone…
Keith is correct also…
Biden and Pelosi probably will continue trying to get SOMETHING since the Progressives ARE gonna have a shit fit reported in the media….
This is probably just negotiating in public …
Bear in mind…
Manchin overwhelmingly votes Democrats actually….
Just remember THIS….
Matthew Yglesias
@mattyglesias
Manchin is much more progressive than anyone else who is going to win elections in West Virginia any time soon.
If you don’t like depending on him, the answer is to find ways to win seats in states like NC, FL, TX, IA, and OH that Trump won twice but by less comical margins.
I don’t want anything bad to happen to Bernie, so it was a bit concerning yet fascinating to see Sanders on CNN from this morning looking like he was on the verge of stroking out while ranting and raving about Joe Manchin and trying to demonize him in very personal terms.
He believes Manchin has betrayed the people of West Virginia and that the bill is something that West Virginians are clamoring for. Does Sanders think that West Virginians would truly prefer him over Manchin? (Anymore than Vermont would prefer Manchin over Sanders)
Of course, Bernie Sanders probably is still under the crazy notion that he could have beaten Donald Trump in the last election.
CG?
This bill was to be the ‘mother lode’ for Democratic progressives….
They have been able to muscle the House and have Biden happy with that…
But quietly even Democratic moderates have been worried that Republicans would be able to take credit for any Biden bill’s expendures while casting that same spending as bad for the country…
For Sanders , who lost in the big running…
The bill was a pay off from Biden….
And other lefties….
I DO expect something much smaller to be pita he’d and approved fro ALL parties to save face…
Otherwise this would be someplace even Manchin does NOT want to be3 in I’d guess….
As usual?
My view could be wrong…
But I doubt it….
Biden just can’t walk away from this the way it’s playing right now….
Ari Berman
@AriBerman
Joe Manchin represents .5% of US population but is killing Build Back Better supported by 70% of Americans
Somebody else is forgetting about the people who voted to elect 50 other U.S. Senators.
Isn’t a majority supposed to matter to these people?
And there is no poll showing that 70 percent or for that matter 50 % of the American people supported this piece of legislation.
‘The Way’ forward.?….
Nate Cohn
@Nate_Cohn
Replying to
@Nate_Cohn
and
@BenjySarlin
but there is some truth to it: without manchin doing something like this, the WH was in the pretty unenviable position of telling progressives they have to totally restructure the bill around manchin’s demands
Now Ayanna Pressley is saying that Joe Biden has “contempt” for the American people. She says there is “one Senator” obstructing the “people’s agenda.”
No, there’s actually at least 51 duly elected Senators that are opposed.
I also thought it was funny that Sanders basically criticized Manchin for voting for the bipartisan infrastructure bill a few weeks ago, as some sort of hypocrisy. That makes zero sense. If anything it shows that Manchin did have the “guts” as Sanders put it, to do something that might be unpopular in his state.
So, because people oppose BBB, they should have opposed the smaller bipartisan infrastructure bill?
Does anybody know what kind of sense that makes?
Sorry, she said that about Joe Manchin, not Joe Biden.
They still want to bring the vote to the floor so that Manchin has to vote no publicly.
That’s fine with me. Maybe he can do a dramatic John McCain thumbs down as the last vote.
Actually?
Polling shows the MAJORITY of Americans SUPPORT the Biden package as it is …..
His state will get benefits in the final compromise bill …..
Manchin is hanging his hat on the cost….
Where are these polls?
FYI
The newest Data for Progress poll, also released yesterday, pointed in a similar direction, with the Build Back Better package enjoying 64 percent support.
What surprises me is the steadiness of the legislation’s popularity. In Monmouth polling, support for the Build Back Better plan hasn’t changed much over the course of 2021: In June, for example, 61 percent of Americans endorsed the package. Six months later, it still has 61 percent support….
More…
That’s an agenda poll. You can phrase things in a way to easily get a majority of people to say yes. The devil is in the details as they say and there was a ton of reservation about what kind of inflation, etc, this massive FDR style bill would cause.
CG?
Do you think the people in West Virginia do NOT want Billions of their tax dollars coming BACK to them😳????
The people of West Virginia, which is now one of the most Republican states in the country, did not want BBB. Full stop.
NOT True CG…….
THIS why i believe there WILL be a bill in the end…….
But according to the survey, 80% of more than 800 people surveyed in his home state believe he should vote to pass the bill. That includes 77% of conservatives who responded to the survey.
The Guardian….
Notable that you did not post the link this time. But I looked it up. I doubt you truly understand what the piece is even saying though.
An organization that wanted the bill to pass polled their own members. Gee, is that very scientific?
Do you actually believe that West Virginia voters wanted this to pass? That they want to side with Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren and the Squad? Or are they possibly concerned about the financial costs or perhaps might have objections to the immigration provisions contained in the bill?
No link because i answered with the iphone
The piece states the support in Manchin’s state never the less….
Manchin WILL want a compromise i’m guessing
Manchin has long said he would vote for some aspects of the bill if they were proposed individually.
But the Democrats have this massive, omnibus bill, that deviates from Congressional Regular Order, because there are unpopular provisions as well that they want to bury within the bill and just focus on what sounds popular.
So maybe they should have decided to debate and vote on things individually, like the way Congress is supposed to work.
They will I believe….
More on how pissed Progressives are with Manchin….
Progressives Are Furious with Joe Manchin
Punchbowl News: “They agreed to pass the infrastructure bill with promises that Biden would be able to bring Manchin along. As of now, he’s not been able to get Manchin on board. There had already been growing frustration among the progressives in the party. Manchin’s statement that he is done with BBB will infuriate them even further. The problem for progressives is they don’t have a lot of leverage here – especially because they agreed to pass infrastructure already.”
Reuters: Bernie Sanders says there should be vote on Build Back Better despite Manchin rejection.
There WILL be a Biden Social Spending Bill….
My bet is that President Biden, Senate majority Leader Schumer and House Speaker Pelosi WILL talk to Sen Manchin and Sinema and work out something….
The House Progressive Democrats ain’t gonna like what comes out from the top…
But in the end?
They will not count….
One cannot see Joe Biden walking away from this empty handed…
Oh, and Sen. Manchin isn’t gonna leave the party….
Democrats can’t afford to let him go…..
The White House is openly attacking Manchin, in blistering terms, saying he is dishonest.
They seem fine with making an enemy out of him, and do not care if they lose his votes on other matters down the road.
This of course was the campaign that ran an ad (which got me to vote for them) that said “Joe Biden doesn’t need Americans to always agree… just agree that we all love this country.”
There may be some individual things passed such as the child tax credit but the big picture is that Biden’s domestic agenda is dead.
CG?
This is just negotiation ….
They WILL work with him to salvage a few things …
They have NO choice….
Please read the linked piece in new post…
President Biden is actually getting shit done….
He’s lousy at selling that to the public….
The linked piece has a fundamental flaw. The author and those he is appealing to are in denial that 51 votes in the U.S. Senate is a majority.
There is no story there. Democrats simply have not won enough elections. If not for Manchin narrowly winning his last raec in WV, they would not have a majority. Had not the late Senator Johnny Isakson resigned early due to health reasons, they would not have a majority.
but a majority of the Senate is opposed to Build Back Whatever as currently construed.
The White House going after Manchin in blistering terms seems to be a sign that they no longer want to deal with him and are thus going to more partisan and ideological moving forward, but perhaps Manchin will be a forgiving person and not take it personally.
Repeating….
There IS bound to be a ‘Bill’ in this in the end…..
Manchin WILL be more important to please than House progressives….
Who are NOW gonna be the ‘bad’ guys..
Not Biden….Or Manchin…..
Pelosi has already had to get around them….
Republicans felt that way about repealing Obamacare under Trump too. That if they went back to the drawing table, something would eventually get done. The party was too divided internally and unwilling to compromise in great enough numbers and it never happened.
Democrats are in a similar situation with this
They would be wise to understand what actually happened in the last election up and down the ballot. They did not elect a President or a party to usher in a New Deal or Great Society. They elected someone to be less of an asshole than Donald Trump and to end the pandemic.
Manchin HAS TO find a middle ground also….
Again…
His ‘NO’ will mean BILLION’S NOT going to West Virginia also…..
Also?
His separating the Infrastructure vote allows him to do this….
Don’t fool urself people…
Biden, Schumer and Pelosi are NOT surprised with this negotiating move….
Yes they are. Biden thought he could win Manchin over by virtue of his smile and personality. It did not happen and the White House is very upset.
It is worth nothing that Biden who of course spent his career as a legislator was never a part of the leadership. He was known primarily for giving speeches and going on tv shows (as can be said of many other Senators.)
Biden was likable enough personally to beat Trump during a time of crisis but it has continued to be very obvious that Biden has extremely poor political judgment and instincts.
So, if I can “wishcast”, am I better off hoping for a Cheney-Kinzinger GOP ticket or a Hogan-Manchin Independent ticket?
I mean, unless Mitt wants to run again..
Like i said……
Let the negotiations begin….
One day after sinking President Joe Biden’s signature social and climate spending legislation, Manchin (D-W.Va.) laid out a path forward that could take months and still fail. He wants the legislation to go through Senate committees and focus on rolling back the 2017 Trump tax cuts. He also wants Democrats to stop trying to force him into compliance.…
Politico
You are NOT supposed to negotiate stuff in the media….
Sen. Joe Manchin (D-W.Va.) and President Joe Biden spoke Sunday night after a major blowup in negotiations around the president’s domestic agenda, three people familiar with the call told POLITICO.
The conversation ended with a sense that negotiations would, in fact, resume around the Build Back Better Act in some form in the new year. The tone of conversation was cordial and it was agreed that they would speak again on legislative priorities….
More….
Manchin Made Private Offer to White House
“Sen. Joe Manchin (D-WV) last week made the White House a concrete counteroffer for its spending bill, saying he would accept a $1.8 trillion package that included universal prekindergarten for 10 years, an expansion of Obamacare, and hundreds of billions of dollars to combat climate change,” the Washington Post reports.
“But Manchin’s counteroffer excluded an extension of the expanded Child Tax Credit the administration has seen as a cornerstone of President Biden’s economic legacy, an omission difficult for the White House to accept in the high-stakes negotiations.”
“Manchin’s private proposal to the White House — the details of which have not been previously reported — was made just days before a spectacular public collapse in negotiations.”
I HAVE pointed out that Sen Manchin is NOT alone…..
Manu Raju
@mkraju
New – House Ds in swing districts want Manchin back at table and their leaders to shift strategy to get smaller bill.
They voted for BBB — but have nothing to show for it.
“If we continue to point fingers … that’s a recipe for absolute destruction”
If something like this happens?
Manchin will quickly fall off the Republicans favorites list( and probably CGs fantasy “ Independent” ticket)
Indeed, word is Manchin wants to reconsider Trumps 2017 tax cut for the wealthy).
Now Republicans can take a little rhetoric here and there but taxes on the wealthy?Thats heresy of the first order.Joe better enjoy this little bit of pre Christmas camaraderie with the Republicans because if he buys into this proposal and particularly if he starts to mess with the Tax cuts for the rich?He will be cast out into the netherworld of being labeled a “Socialist” or maybe even a “Communist” in one of the rants of MTG , Boehbert,Louie Goehmert ,Jimbo Jordan etc.
Are people still talking about a third party?
That’s not fantasy that’s insanity.
I HAVE repeated here that absent the media bull shit….
Democratic Sen Manchin votes Democrats….
Manchin is concerned about the deficit and he supposedly wanted everything to be paid for. fair enough. But that implies tax cuts must be paid for too. That means you either have to cut spending (the defense budget is the obvious target because that is where most of that spending is) or you have to raise taxes on some other group to pay for the loss of revenue from the giveaway to the wealthy. More borrowing from China won’t be on the table for Manchin.
The GOP has been the borrow and spend party for decades. And that is probably why such a high percentage of economists are Democrats. I assume some of the relatively few economists who are Republican probably prefer the GOPs position on non-economic positions – such as making it harder for blacks to vote.
The Defense budget has been PASSED and signed at a HIGHER number then Biden wanted….
Ya have to stop talking about sending Defense money to social programs…
As my post on the system points out….
Congress on the whole is WTF MORE conservative then the American public which is centre to right in my view…..
Had we followed James’ logic in the ’Sixties, there might have been less inflation, but the Great Society would never have begun.
Lyndon Baines Johnson was Trump and McConnell on steroids….
Both Houses of Congress are controlled by Democrats. In no way is Congress “center right.”
It is true that some voters in individual districts or states voted in many cases for Republicans for Congress while voting for a Democrat for President, as a check and balance.
‘Controlled’????
The VP is the Senate majority….
Pelosi has a 8 seat majority and the progressives have to be pushed….
Yes, Democrats control the calendar and the agenda and what can be debated, what gets voted on, etc. etc.
Along with the White House, Democrats control two branches of government and regardless of the margins, are definitely a left party. Historically, there is pushback against one party control in a midterm election which is why were are likely to have divided government after next year.
Which don’t mean shit, eh?
It means a lot. Stop making excuses.
No excuse
Pelosi is whipsawed by progressives
Schumer by Manchin and Sinema
What excises?