I didn’t watch the whole thing….
But I saw the beginning and the middle….
What I saw was a political knife fight among Democrats on the stage…
The media is calling it Elizabeth Warren’s win…
What I saw in Warren is somebody trying to find a middle between Sanders hard left and center of the others….
Mike Bloomberg seemed to me to be lost…
Stripped of his money on stage ?
He was just a guy getting stuff thrown at him…
Pete Buttigieg….
A guy also seemed lost to me….
Throwing punches, but seemingly just not in same league as the heavy hitters…
Amy Klobuchar as usual, her whinny voice carrying a common sense Mid Western message that just won’t get her the nomination….
BTW?
The media declared HER the winner in the last debate…
That lasted for 12 hours…
Bernie Sanders…..
Ole’ Bernie had a LOT of incoming last night…
And he proved to me why I will NOT vote for him no matter what….
Seeming wild and off the hook he staunchly defended HIS socialist view of what government should be…
A collective….
Free everything for the masses….
But as usual?
A small read back on wholesaled would ACTUALLY pay for his vision…
I’m not like the kids and dreamers that have jammed social media and the media herds….
Bernie Sanders vision of taxing JUST the rich to give to the poor will NEVER happen in a way that could actually sustain itself….
Republicans and Democrats in Congress are simply NOT gonna go along….
Folks?
America IS a capitalistic country….
While we do have social based programs ?
Making money is NOT the crime Bernie Sanders wants to make it…
Elizabeth Warren actually had to clarify in the debate that she IS a capitalist ….
Image THAT?!….
I leave the last for the guy who support and will vote for….
Joe Biden….
I’m NOT gonna say ole’ Joe because Bernie is actually his senior….
Joe Biden had his best debate last night…
Force full and yelling at times…
He defended his visions with intensity …
He gave what he got …
The problem for him is that he is NOW viewed by the herd as a has been…
Ecipsed by Bloombergs money….
Sanders supporters social media zealotry …
And the media herding….
Biden’s only saviour will be to perform in the actual voting in the next two weeks…
We’ll see if in picking Sanders?
The Democrats WILL help Donald Trump get a second term….
…NPR’s summary….
Bloomberg was the object of scorn, ridicule and contempt. And that was just in the first five minutes of the debate.
With all candidates flashing heat, a measure of the urgency they feel to survive in what is becoming an increasingly bitter nomination fight, the attacks focused on Bloomberg were a clear measure of his perceived strength. He has spent more than $400 million so far on advertising that in turn has given him strong standing in state and national polls…
…
For eight debates, the Democrats largely tiptoed around disagreements except for desultory disputes about health care policies. But on Wednesday night, everyone came with sharp elbows.
It was almost impossible to keep track of the fights. Buttigieg and Klobuchar tussled over experience and the Minnesota senator forgetting the name of Mexico’s president. Buttigieg and Sanders argued about the Vermont senator’s big-ticket plans and refusal to release his full medical records. Warren clashed with Buttigieg and Klobuchar over their health care plans. And everyone piled onto Bloomberg.
The former New York mayor was the only candidate who didn’t really go on the attack, other than the occasional swipe at the self-declared socialist Sanders….
…
Warren rose to prominence in the Democratic field with a fighting spirit that defined the early months of her campaign. But her disappointing showings in Iowa and New Hampshire left her campaign struggling.
On Wednesday, she decided to get back into the fight…
…
Buttigieg, who finished in the top two in Iowa and New Hampshire with Sanders, reserved some of his harshest criticism for Sanders, a man 40 years his elder…
…
But Sanders did nothing likely to undermine his standing as the leading candidate so far…
…
The last debate was rocket fuel for Klobuchar. Her strong performance vaulted her to a third-place finish in New Hampshire and onto Nevada. But it may be hard for lightning to strike twice….
…
Another candidate in need of a big night to reverse perceptions that his campaign was struggling was Biden.
For a good portion of the debate, he receded. He joined in the attacks on Bloomberg, but largely avoided some of the more testy exchanges.
When Warren said that Biden was “in the pocket” of Republican Mitch McConnell, the Senate majority leader, Biden fought back. He also tried to return to his “Middle Class Joe” biography about his family’s financial struggles.
He did not offer voters any new rationale for voting for him….
image…John Locher/AP
Some quick thoughts-
1, I could have Bloomberg so much better prepared for the specific attacks he was going to get and how to respond to them in 75 seconds. He would have still taken “hits” but I could have helped him pivot and lessen the effect so much better. And for the amount of money he pays his staff, I could have really made bank! (Contact me Mike)
2, If this is the worst night for Bloomberg as a Presidential candidate, he is probably lucky. I think whatever bad press will fade away in a couple of news cycles.
3. All things considered, I think Buttigieg did pretty well, as he usually does.
4. Tougher night for Klobuchar than past debates. She showed serious flashes of temper. james called her voice “whiny.” We have heard others say that Warren is “shrill” and that Harris was “mean.” Any observation is of course valid, but when coming from males (especially if they were to be conservative), it would also be considered implicit sexism in many circles.
5. Biden is pretty much an after-thought at this point. Whether it was his “best debate’ or not (and I remember people kept saying that the more debates Jeb Bush was in last, even when it seemed clear he had no real path), it’s not going to matter one bit if Biden can’t get votes or raise money.
6. Is james confirming he won’t vote for Sanders if Sanders wins the nomination? Many Democrats would not.
7. Good night for Trump last night to see all this go down, but of course the final battle is far from determined.
Remember…
Nate Silver
@NateSilver538
THIS IS BIDEN ERASURE
(TBH I’m not sure if I mean this ironically or seriously. But Biden has always done pretty well vs. Sanders in head-to-head polls, including in the recent Yahoo one.)
Sanders underperformed in Iowa AND NH…..
and Biden didn’t?
Sorry, this is over for Biden. The only thing that would save him at this point is if Obama came out publicly for him and said he would be the only one he could ever possibly support and all the rest are losers and phonies. That would help in the primaries, but of course there might then be the Obama General Election curse.
Could very well be….
But then?
It might not….
We’ll see….
Bloomberg is carpeting Rhode Island TV stations with campaign commercials (because nest-door Mass. is voting on SuperTuesday) and half of those imply that Bloomberg is Obama’s candidate [and implicitly the Black Citizen’s Friend).
See, e.g., https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/481587-bloomberg-highlights-ties-to-obama-in-new-ad
Oddly enough, no footage of Bloomberg with Republican office-holders or politicians from the start of this century.
From Binging, I found these fine examples:
https://www.politico.com/news/2019/11/26/bloomberg-republican-endorsement-2020-073807
I doubt its local to New England.
The ads are nationwide I think,
I believe DSD us correct….
ad are targeted to local and state markets..
The same ads are running constantly on Chicago stations and we don’t vote until 3/17. I think Bloomberg’s buys are national.
Maybe he just is throwing away money?
Maybe it is a tax write off…lol
The average swing voter should appreciate the fact that Bloomberg (whom has heavily favored Democrats in recent years and has been perhaps their top donor), tried to keep what he viewed as decent, honorable people in office as Republicans. He found Republicans that opposed the NRA on gun control and he backed them for having the “courage” to do so. Otherwise, the end result is an entire political party “beholden” to the NRA.
And yes, he voted for George W, Bush the year a majority of America did as well and then publicly left the Republican Party while GWB was still President.
Do Bernie Sanders and his people reject the support of anyone who voted for GWB in 2004? They need to get back people who voted for Trump a dozen years later. They certainly need the kind of people who were still Republicans back then but have been turned off by Trump.
I notice Warren,a former Republican, didn’t badger Bloomberg about that.
I dint think that’s going to be a big issue
She had her own lines of attack.
Biden kept bringing up Bloomberg being a Republican and trying to say he was a lousy Mayor (even as Bloomberg runs an ad of Biden praising Bloomberg’s record)
Buttigieg also tried to appeal to the party faithful by saying that his two main opponents (and both fellow former Mayors) were not Democrats as Mayors.
I voted for a Republican for US Senate as recently as 2004, so this isn’t really a big issue for me.
Of course that was when Bill Frist–unlike McConnell a decent human being– headed the Senate Republicans.
I read SE Cupp’s column today in which she talks about how Bloomberg as Mayor, essentially used City government to try to force women to breastfeed their babies. This made me feel ickier about planning to vote for Bloomberg than anything else thus far, but I am trying to focus on the big picture as it relates to the Presidency and things like foreign policy and the survival of capitalism, and I know he wouldn’t even be able to try to do his nanny state tricks at the federal level.
Oh there going to be all sorts of things about Bloomberg that are going to turn you off.
He is going to move perceptibly Left as the weeks go by.
then he will lose his “brand” and struggle to have any chance of stopping Sanders. Voters who want radical leftism will go with the real thing every time.
(although Republicans were dumb enough to pick Trump)
On stage though, at least Bloomberg made a minor attempt to defend capitalism. He even basically called Bernie a Commie.
If I recall correctly there was *zero* discussion of foreign policy last night besides for Klobuchar having to admit she couldn’t think of the Mexican President’s name (and apparently was unable to speak at all about his policies or background)
Mayor Pete justly pointed out she is on the Senate committees that deal with Mexico and she should know these things, and then she basically freaked out and claimed that Pete was calling her fat… err dumb..
Biden weighed in to say he is the only one to actually meet with all sorts of Mexican Presidents, though he couldn’t remember their names if his life depended on it.
I read the SE Cupp piece. She complains about Biden and Sanders on the same issue.
Ho hum.
Trump and Pence are going to shutter Planned Parenthood and force rape victims to carry their uncle’s fetuses. But yeah let’s claim that initiatives that favor breast milk over free formula are taking away women’s rights.
SE Cupp is a Republican.
She doesn’t like Trump but doesn’t really like the Democrats either.
So there you are.
Well, her and I agree on a lot.
She’s to the left of me on social issues in general though.
Women certainly should not be denied formula or information about it. Not everyone is able to breastfeed. The child does not die if not breastfed (likely nobody here was as a child considering our ages), so this would certainly fall under the category of “her body her choice.”
Not in regards to an uncle-rape resulting in a pregnancy. I think there would be other legal options to end that pregnancy in the first trimester (with of course the Uncle being prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law) beyond a federally funded Planned Parenthood.
Just because someone moves” left” to win the Democratic nomination doesn’t mean they are a”radical leftist.”
Richard Nixon’s maxim that to win the the Republican nomination one moves right leading up to the convention then gallops back to the Center is appropo of the Democratic nomination as well with Left being substituted for Right.
You do understand that Bloomberg is not running as an independent ,but for the nomination of the Democratic Party.Moving Left on some issues where the majority of voters in Democratic contests are, is only good politics and is not at all unusual.
If that upsets you to the extent that you don’t vote for him such be your choice.
Sanders is a radical leftist. I sense others here even agree with me on that.
If somebody has to get to the left of Sanders to beat him, that is pretty telling.
I can understand why he felt he had no choice but to apologize for Stop and Frisk. I can tell he doesn’t actually fully mean it.
This is a different kind of election and Bloomberg is only going to get nominated as a different kind of candidate. He has to portray himself as “Break the Glass in Case of Emergency”) He has to scare enough people into thinking (and it might very well be true) that only he can beat Trump so get on board or prepare to suffer the consequences.
I never said Bloomberg was going to move to the left of Sanders.
So I don’t know where that is coming from.
Actually I do so strike that.
Moving further to the left in a race against Sanders serves no strategic point. Bloomberg for the past decade has been associated plenty with left-wing causes. He has proven his bona fides.
Sure it does.
Most Democrats take what you would describe as “Left “ positions on a host of issues.
Apparently you think that the path for Bloomberg’s to win the Democratic nomination is to run essentially as an anti Trump REPU.
That’s not going to happen.
As he articulates more positions on issues you describe as “Left.” You are going to become increasingly upset.
As I said last week,in the end?
You will not vote for him.
As long as he supports Israel and does not come out for getting rid of the Hyde Amendment or in support of infanticide, I will vote for him.
My other issue was the Iranian Nuclear Deal. He clearly came out against it at the time. The damage has already been done though, so I don’t even care if he flip flops on that now.
I’ll hold my nose and vote for him. And I will be hoping for Congress to stop him at any turn where he proposes something bad.
Nate Silver
@NateSilver538
I’m not totally sure what it means and it’s probably just noise/means nothing, but Sanders’s state polls aren’t as strong as his national polls. A lot of low-to-mid-20s, whereas the national polls are in the mid-to-high-20s.
Bernie Sanders is NOT the BEST pick to run against Donald Trump….
Everybody KNOWS THAT except the ‘The Bern’ people….
The path to beat Sanders is to win over the pragmatists and the “Independents” (people like you even) and yes some “future former Republicans” (like me).
Bloomberg is never going to win over the Twitter crowd. (neither is Buttigieg or Biden). He needs to run as a “center-left” candidate (though I would prefer center-right to be sure) who has the ability to beat Trump.
That should be all that matters and should be the talking point he pivots to on *every* answer.
I fear that ex-Mayor Bloomberg’s nanny-state approach has irredeemably antagonised the pivotal Big Gulp vote (certainly in the Badger, Wolverine, Buckeye and Keystone States).
The only Big Gulp that is relevant to this race is the one that Trump will give if he loses.
Do the letters AMLO ring a bell?
In all honesty, a High School Freshman should be able to name the leaders of Mexico and Canada.
I doubt more than 5 percent can though, sadly.
How many unadulterated lifelong Democrats are in the field ? Probably only Biden & Buttigieg.
Amy Klobuchar was — technically — elected as the Senatorial candidate of the Democratic Farmer-Labor Party.
Elizabeth Warren used to be a Republican.
Bernie Sanders at one time ran against Democrats as a Socialist.
And Michael Bloomberg — while not matching Lincoln Chafee’s four-label record — has switched from Democrat to Republican to Independent to Democrat again.
¶ It would be far too harsh to impose Walter Reuther’s policy towards Communists and ex-Communists in the United Automobile Workers: that all workers belong in the union and all sinners belong in the Church — but not in the pulpit or the front pews.
[ In unsuccessfully trying to verify this quotation — whose first part also applied to CIO and independent unions joining with the AF of L, as well as unorganized workers in general joining their respective unions — I came across this gem:
Walter Reuther was being shown through the Ford Motor plant in Cleveland recently. A company official proudly pointed to some new automatically controlled machines and asked Reuther: “How are you going to collect union dues from these guys?” Reuther replied: “How are you going to get them to buy Fords?”
– Nov 1954 UAW-CIO conference report published in Jan. 1955
https://uaw.org/walter-reuther-quote-collection/ ]
DFL counts as Democrat.
I like when Mayor Pete said that if being elected a Senator from MN is proof of political viability he would have grown up under President Mondale.
Amy needs to stop exaggerating her political wins. She beat C level or below Republicans in her last two races. The party did not even attempt to challenge her. If anything, just mention that.