His comments to the UN Mission from the US in New York expected to get a ‘atta boy’…..
Instead?
They got warning that Trump wanted to know who gave him up and anyone that did the same would be the subject of retribution…
Trump WAS demanding absolute ‘loyality’ without the thought of legality.…
As is usual?
Donald Trump digs HIMSELF deeper into a hole….
(The media IS having a ball…But what of the average America whose support House Speaker Pelosi and Senate Minority Leader Schumer will need)
President Trump on Thursday morning told a crowd of staff from the United States Mission to the United Nations that he wants to know who provided information to a whistle-blower about his phone call with the president of Ukraine, saying that whoever did so was “close to a spy” and that “in the old days,” spies were dealt with differently.
The remark stunned people in the audience, according to a person briefed on what took place, who had notes of what the president said. Mr. Trump made the statement about several minutes into his remarks before the group of about 50 people at the event intended to honor the United States Mission. At the outset, he condemned the former Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr.’s role in Ukraine at a time when his son Hunter Biden was on the board of a Ukrainian energy company.
Mr. Trump repeatedly referred to the whistle-blower and condemned the news media reporting on the complaint as “crooked.” He then said the whistle-blower never heard the call in question.
Intimidating potential witnesses certainly constitutes obstruction of justice.
Except for Trump in Barr’s eye’s….
Like my wife says.,..
Barr was a HONE-RUN for Trunp!
Republicans have conclusively shown they don’t care about obstruction of justice.
A precedent has now been set whereby future Presidents can engage in “ informative conversations “ with law enforcement officials, Justice Department officials and potential witnesses in criminal matters with impunity.
The concept of “obstruction of justice”for Presidents is now pretty much a dead letter and will be trotted out occasionally as a political weapon
However it’s use as an impeachment threat in the future is highly unlikely.It will always be the ultimate “whataboutism”(a well known rhetorical occurrence on this site),
“What about Trump?”
Thanks Trump!Thanks Republicans!
Let’s all hear it for,uh, “law and order,”
if a Democratic President obstructs justice, Congress will impeach. The response to “What about Trump?” Will be that he wasn’t even tried. And they will be right.
You blame Republicans. I think you are to blame too.
So if a person ,who has no power to do anything but express an opinion as to thepolitics of impeachment ,expresses that opinion.
He is to “blame?”Novel argument.
For what exactly?Besides it appears Impeachment is about to happen.
Be happy!
There are Democrats (like James and you) who are pressuring Democrats not to impeach. You by yourself certainly have Little power, but tens of thousands of people like you could influence the actions of others. So a Republican listening to you will say “Well even the Democrats think impeachment is foolish”.
I am opposed to Donald Trump .
I believe that he has committed impeachable offenses, before this latest transgression.(see my post above be as to Obstruction).Unlike you and CG,I view imoeachment as both a legal and political process.
I have stated my Political opinion that,regardless of any evidence presented, the Republicans in the Senate will not vote to remove him from office.
CG has sated the view that,I assume, you believe that Trump Republicans will be so swayed by this evidence that they will turn against him ,thus allowing Republicans in the Senate to vote to remove Trump without fear of electoral retaliation.I do now tsubscribe to this view and believe it grossly misreads the mindset of his cultlike supporters.
Indeed ,the idea that they would ever acquiesce to a Democratic(read librul) led effort to remove their hero is ,in my view , bordering on naïveté.
It appears that our theories are going t be tested shortly.If Trump is removed it will be a great victory for our country and I will happily confess that I was wrong.
Indeed, I hope I am.I fear that I am not.
The other two times I distinctly remember jack saying this in regards to “I hope I am wrong but I won’t be” were
1. Republicans moving to remove the Confederate flag at the state capitol in SC after the Charleston shootings
2. The suggestion that Roy Moore could lose to a Democrat in AL for a Senate seat.
Z?
And what would your feeling after a impeachment vote is done….
The Senate doe NOT convict…
Donald Trump does victory laps of another four years?????
This just flies in the logic of common sense, (along with how jack has misrepresented what I have been saying about “communication.)
Common sense seems to show that Trump being acquitted via a political trial, would be bad for him electorally and hurt him in 2020.
The only caveat is if the American people believe the impeachment charges are bogus and he had a right to do what he did.
If that is what the American people wind up believing, our problems go far beyond DJT,
C OMPLETE EXONERATION !!!
… even if 60 Senators vote to convict.
need the other 7…
And at least 2 Dem’s are questionable UNLESS the polling jumps strong for impeachment
I agree on the obstruction watering down to nothing….
This whole thing goes to prove that the legal and law thing means absolutely NOTHING when. it come to a President who owns a majority in just one house of Congress and owns the Attorney General…
Every time someone says, Republicans will never vote to impeach, it gives them a little more cover not to impeach, and it helps reduce any pressure to do so.
You believe Republicans feel “pressured”by Democrats on impeachment?
That’s absurd.
They are already playing it as another Democratic plot .Yesterdays NPR/Marist Poll showed that 93% of Republicans are opposed to an impeachment inquiry much less the act itself.
You appear to be more upset t with the Democrats ,who are questioning this ,than the Republicans who will ultimately decide his guilt.Almost like you are giving them a pass.Sort Of like CG ,who has already set up his fallback position that ,if Trump isn’t removed from office it will be a result of a lack of “communication “ by the Democrats.
I have already said that those who oppose impeachment hearings at this point are moral cowards. That applies to Republicans and Democrats alike.
At the same time Democrats that oppose impeachment hearings do give Republicans cover to oppose it also. Isn’t that obvious?
At least some Republicans may actually be brainwashed to be under the perception of what Trump did was perfectly ok. They are wrong, but at least there is some logical reasoning there.
Democrats believing the opposite have no excuse really I suppose.
what is the logical reasoning for Republicans to believe that what Trump did was ok?
I am not saying they are correct to believe it, but it is logical to think he did nothing wrong and thus impeachment is wrong as opposed to believing he committed impeachable offenses but impeachment is wrong.
I am sure you understand what I am saying.
Of course, about 20 years ago a lot of Democrats fell into the latter category as well.
Yes it’s political waste of time.
Now When(not if) your fellow Republicans vote not to remove Trump we can expect your stinging condemnation of their actions right with your concomitant pledge to oppose their reeekection right?
I don’t live in a state with a Republican running for reelection to the Senate so that’s a moot point.
For the others, it depends who they are running against.
It wasn’t a deal breaker for me in regards to the GOP Senators who voted to acquit Clinton, but clearly I believe that if the evidence is presented in the way I think it is exists, it will be looked upon as an historical tragedy to vote to let Trump get away with it.
Yeah sure.
You surely wouldn’t want Democrats taking their place now,would you?
I mean all this moral posturing only goes so far..
Well, I did support Doug Jones over Roy Moore, did I not? I don’t live in that state either though.
The main problem is Trump and Trumpism. The solution is not a full out capitulation towards policies and practices I think would be very bad for America and the world.
These schisms will exist long after Trump fades into disgrace.
I understand that you don’t believe it.
I was never comfortable with Clinton having an affair with an intern. At most companies, a CEO that did that would be and should be fired. Yes, there are Many people who believe that consexual sex is purely a private matter. But I frankly find that to be far more convincing than the argument that it is acceptable to pressure a foreign government to investigate a political opponent. Only one of those two situations is a threat to democracy.
Just speaking for myself, I do not think a President (or any American) has the right to commit perjury, obstruct justice, or abuse foreign policy powers for election interference.
All sorts of cable networks are playing clips of people like Lindsey Graham from 20 years ago and Jerry Nadler from 20 years ago, etc, showing how different they now sound on the matter.
I would sound exactly the same.
Well at least I take a stand.
How about you?
I notice you have no position on whether your fellow Republicans will actually vote to remove tpTrump.I say No .
Hw about you?
I don’t know yet. It would be cool if I were a Senator instead of Durbin or Duckworth, but I am not so they aren’t exactly “my fellow Republicans” as it relates to this question. As I said, it depends on the polls. That’s not the most important thing to consider though.
Imagine if our Founding Fathers had looked at the situation realistically and thought, “well, there’s no way we will ever beat the British” and “the polls say that nearly half the colonists have no appetite for Independence.”
I think it was a good thing that they took a risk against long odds and sacrificed “lives, fortunes, and sacred honor” in doing what was right.
Haha yeah…you don’t know “yet.”
I said I was optimistic the American people would make their voices heard and that politicians being politicians will put their finger in the wind and take heed.
The early polls show I am on my way to being right.
And while numerically, there are certainly more Democrats than Republicans supporting impeachment, the amount of increase among Republicans who now think impeachment should happen is equal to that of Democrats.
The early polls show no such thing.
The only early poll that showed a breakdown by party as to whether there should be an impeachment inquiry was the Marist/NPR and it showed 93% opposed even an inquiry much less removal itself.
The overall numbers are irrelevant to Republicans in the Senate.All they care about is Republican voters .
The early polls show a marked increase in the people who think Trump ought to be impeached.
And it was a fairly significant number even before this.
I am seeing nothing from the early polling to suggest that Republicans or anyone else are comfortable with what Trump did or would not support some sort of sanction.
Republican Senators up for reelection in marginal states will care about more than just Republican voters.
People like Mitt Romney can afford to care about the truth, above all else.
Who cares what they are “comfortable “ with?
The only question is will they support his removal.
Answer?
Of course not but they are so uh,
“Concerned” ( a new favorite Republican word)
If they lose aRepublicanprimary
None of that matters anyway.
Trumpites will have a candidate in the primary for any Republican that votes to remove Trump and,knowing there are insufficient votes to remove him ,they’re not going to chance it.
That’s obvious.
jack I know you are an intelligent person and you have been around a while. I just want to make sure you actually understand that if Trump is theoretically acquitted, he still has to run in a general election. This is different than “recall elections.”
One thing does not cancel the other. One thing may influence the other.
I don’t understand the tunnel vision on whether he would be removed or not.
And CG?
Trump running at 2- 2 against Dom efforts to get his fired would be a way for him to laugh all the way to EC victory most likely….
There’s a long way to go before we have seen evidence that there is going to be a movement to primary incumbents because they wound up supporting impeachment.
That would be a 2022 thing if anything, and by that point, one way or another, this impeachment is going to be “old news.”
Well thank you .I believe you are an intelligent person too.
My entire point is that Trump won’t be removed.
You keep mentioning the election.My view is that this impeachment trial will have no particular effect on that.
Those who oppose Trump are still going to and those who support him are still going to.
Mitch McConnell says an impeachment trial will “mobilize” the “base.”
Who knows?
I think Trump is going to lose the election for a number of reasons and have previously listed them over the past months here so I won’t repeat them..I don’t think an impeachment trial will be even the most important reason in contributing to his defeat.
Not necessarily .
Pelosi is talking about having an impeachment vote within a couple of months.
The trial could take place as early as Jan. Or Feb.
I do NOT think there will be a Trump impeachment TRIAL during the beginning of the Democratic Primaries….
I definitely believe an impeachment process would hurt Trump’s chances at winning another term… bigly.
Of course, other factors will impact that election too.. a world event nobody is expecting, problems with the Democrat nominee, etc, all of that might matter.
But clearly, I believe this impeachment process if it does not remove him, will hurt him far more than it helps him.
If he “survives” the Senate vote, sure he will declare victory obviously. As Joe Biden would say, “gird your loins” and get over it.
I think his “getting away with it” would do much to energize people to vote against him.
If my instincts are wrong though and the American people come to determine that he did nothing wrong and his critics overreached, and he wins another term because of that, then someone has lost the messaging battle and we have fundamental problems with our civilization itself that go far beyond him,
Let’s get on with the process. The facts are not going to change.
I’d want the Senate trial to start within a couple of weeks if it was up to me. (No postseason baseball to care about this year.)
If people do NOT think Trump would hang Mueller And a no convict in the Senate around a Biden/Wareren campaign?
They are tripping….
Among the Republican Senators up in 2020, who might possibly be among the 35 that Flake speculated about, I cannot see a specific case where someone could at that late of a date in this cycle begin a winning primary challenge. Of course, most Senators are not up in 2020.
So, as it relates to Susan Collins or Cory Gardner or Martha McSally…. if they were to vote to convict….
Does that cause pro-Trump voters to abandon them in November 2020 or vote Democrat in protest (when the Democrat will also be for impeachment) or will it earn them the support of swing voters for putting country before party?
All those political considerations will be taken into account.
Historically speaking, it looks like there was just one person in all of Congress who lost an election over the Bill Clinton impeachment.
In 2000, Arkansas Republican Jay Dickey was unseated by Democrat Mike Ross in the district where Bill Clinton grew up.
(I am going to surmise that impeachment manager James Rogan lost to Adam Schiff that year for other reasons)
Of course, that Arkansas district is more than gone for Democrats now.
There where differences in the Clinton impeachment….
Clinton was about a woman…
Trump ALREADY aced THAT…
Clinton also paid little attention to the caper after they actually got into it….
Trump has EXPANDED his media profile by a MILLION…
Clinton was already in his second term….
Trump is about a culture of effrontery to the rules, customs and culture of things…
Clinton IS a politician….
And?
Trump OWNS his party and the Justice Dept.
and yes, the Clinton impeachment also brought down Gingrich and Livingston for hypocrisy related reasons (and nobody had any idea about Hastert then)
So, it is probably doubtful that there is anything Pelosi is doing with foreign governments trying to dig up dirt on Trump or his kids, right?
All the “differences” between the Clinton ordeal and the current situation are ones that should make it worse for Trump this time.
And the “Biden/Warren” ticket you have suddenly concocted would say what?
“Yes, you are right. Totally exonerated!”
A Biden/Warren ticket would in my view be the BEST of all worlds!
Former Sen. Jeff Floake said that 35 GOP Senators would vote for impeachment if it were a secret ballot
Is there any rule that says the vote to convict has to be public?
Let it be secret ballot and see if these Repiblican votes materialize.
Too bad that’s NOT the case, eh Scott?
James, please provide your source – if possible.
I just came aboard Z….
Source for what?
James, Please provide a Source if possible for your statement that impeachment cannot based on a secret ballot. You are probably right, but I would like to see for myself.
I’m pretty certain I have heard that all impeachment votes are done via roll call, i.e. every Senator is called individually and rises to vote. Supreme Court nominations are handled the same way.
Obviously, it would be very bad if Congress ever voted on anything via secret vote.
Yes, though, in this case, many Republicans would throw Trump overboard secretly.
Also, the AG has no role in an impeachment process.
Trump will have to hire his own lawyers to represent him in the Senate.
So despite also being a witness, I guess he can have Rudy Giuliani on the Senate floor ranting and raving for the tv cameras.
james will declare that 2019 Giuliani will get Trump reelected while also saying that 2001 Giuliani when he had an 80% job approval number in NYC after 9/11 would have certainly lost in November that year for a third term.
Again CG?
Rudy couldn’t a third term after 9-11
Bloomberg DID….
Rudy had issues