The NY Democratic House member is pointing at the conditions under which migrants are held by the Trump admin’s Homeland Security Dept. which is overran with the numbers of people it is trying to handle….
Over the last 24 hours Trump has threaten to increase the number of people the department would have to deal with by having ICE try to seek and detain EVERY undocumented person in America…
Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-N.Y.) pressed her case Tuesday that the Trump administration is running “concentration camps” at the U.S.-Mexico border amid criticism from Republicans who said she was demeaning Jews exterminated in the Holocaust.
During a live stream Monday night, the freshman lawmaker decried the conditions of migrant detention facilities the administration is using to cope with a surge of border crossings and highlighted a decision to hold some children at an Oklahoma Army base that was used as an internment camp for Japanese Americans during World War II.
“The fact that concentration camps are now an institutionalized practice in the home of the free is extraordinarily disturbing, and we need to do something about it,” Ocasio-Cortez told her viewers on Instagram. She later accused Trump of conducting “an authoritarian and fascist presidency.”
“I don’t use those words lightly,” Ocasio-Cortez said. “I don’t use those words to just throw bombs. I use that word because that is what an administration that creates concentration camps is. A presidency that creates concentration camps is fascist, and it’s very difficult to say that.”
Ocasio-Cortez continued making her argument Tuesday morning, sharing on Twitter an Esquire article that raised questions about the conditions at U.S. detention facilities….
Note…
Republicans have tried to distract from her comments about the use of the term concentration camps by referring to Jews at their suffering during WWII….
Also?
Democrats have been largely absent from offering idea’s on how to deal with the immigration situation as it stands right NOW….
image…advocate.com
I’m not that big a fan of AOC and have previously mentioned that her comments are given far too much importance relative to her position.
She is,after all, nothing more than a freshman Congressperson.
Throwing around the term “concentration camp” in such a hyperbolic fashion serves to remind me why my lack of enthusiasm for her almost daily mutterings continues.
She’s getting media attention for here and Trump’s actions, eh?
I also think AOC is overrated, but I do love that she makes so many old creeps who watch FOX News all day so conflicted.
I don’t think that I agree that Ocasio-Cortez is over-rated. She has more twitter followers than almost anyone, so despite her lack of seniority in the house, her influence is enormous.
Her “concentration camp” is over-the-top of course, but it doesn’t bother me that someone is overstating the problem when so many Democrats are understating the problem.
she voted For Pelosi to be one House Speaker….
she has sponsored a piece of legislation with Ted Cruz…..
she appears to be a pretty smart politician….
I’m not convinced she is a smart politician. I am convinced that her intentions are pure (I.e, she believes in what she says).
Her “concentration camp” remark was grotesque and despicable and I say that as someone who abhors Trump’s rhetoric on the immigration issue.
Saying that she should get a pass in overstating a problem or issue because others understate it reminds me a whole lot of how people on the right started excusing Trump.
What is far more grotesque and despicable than “words” is a policy that puts babies in cages away from their parents for an extended period of time. These children will be impacted forever. I wish you were more outraged over injustice as you are with words.
Then why not find the appropriate word instead of using those that both overlook the current problem and immensely disrespect the historical aspect of the word used.
The Trump apologists all thought (and still do) that I am “too hung up on words” as well, so that’s nothing new to hear that.
AOC used the word she know would get a media response….
Homeland’s own IG has complained about the conditions…
A national sweep is just gonna screw things up worst…
Trump just doesn’t know when to stop….
He’s making things worst…..
There are things far more offensive about Trump to me than his words. His corruption, siding with evil regimes, his immorality and his stupidity come to mind more than his offensive words. But at least you are consistent this time in admittting that it is not so much Trump’s values that trouble you, but his words.
When did I say that? Now, you are acting even more like Trump.
It’s all subjective to some. Whether they think the actions are good or bad, both you and the Trumpists want to downplay words.
I think words matter and often words are what inspires deeds, for good or bad. Martin Luther King Jr. certainly understood the power of words.
Yes, words matter.
It sure would have been helpful if the party you support had enought moral decency to use words to speak out against the immoral policy of family separation. But Republicans are silent because they are indifferent. How about calling those Republicans who are worried about offending racists grotesque and dispicable? Instead you would rather attack AOC who called out a grave injustice, and then compare me to Trump. never underestimate the permanent scars that many of these children will have for the rest of their lives. When I was a kid, I used to wonder if there were monsters nearby. These kids know there are monsters.
I have spoken against it and so have many others.
But they are not “concentration camps” in the specific and designated way that AOC meant it. No comparison.
You yourself already said she overstated it. People who overstate things need to be called out on it, if one thinks they are making a greater point or not, such as what Trump apologists think, even as they admit he misstates or overstates things. Eventually, the shrug becomes permanent and corrosive.
“Eventually, the shrug becomes permanent and corrosive.”
Ever met Mitch McConnell or the other members of the Republican Congress Corey? What a fucking joke. Mitch McConnell shrugs everyday over the legislation the House sends him.
So you spoke out against the separation of children at the border, how about your whole party Corey? What the fuck are they saying Corey? And what the fuck are you going to do about it, send a stern email to Mitch? I doubt it.
The GOP is the party of Trump, and to defend what the party is doing is to defend Trump.
So words are now more important than actions, I see, this is the new Republican excuse for all the bullshit the Trump Administration pulls and that the Republican Congress enables. Right?
Tonight’s whataboutism is that AOC should have never compared the Trump immigration camps with concentration camps. But, anyone who has studied history knows that the camps in Nazi Germany didn’t start with extermination camps, they started just like the Trump camps are being run today. People that were deemed undesirable were separated from their families, held captive in horrible conditions, and treated like subhumans. Isn’t that exactly what is happening today to thousands of people, and isn’t that exactly what Trump threatened to do today to “millions” more?
So where is the outrage from the Republicans in Congress? When are they going to speak out against the mistreatment of these little children? Hell, when are they going to speak out against the growing deficit, ridiculous tariffs, or the overwhelming corruption in the Administration? Everyday they violate the reasons the Republican Party was ever formed in the first place.
Once again, this coming election is a choice between Trump and the Democrat. A vote for anyone else than the Democrat is a vote for Trump.
Good to hear from you Keith
Thanks Zreebs, and good to read that Scott had such a good time in my hometown. It changes so fast that it’s tough to recognize it when I visit.
My comments regarding AOC, and her position regarding the caging of little children, were spot on as far as I am concerned. Of course she would be attacked for making that comparison because, as a woman of color, she is a logical target for the racist misogynistic GOP.
It really is sad how few Republican women, of any color, serve in Congress. You would think they thought they shouldn’t serve in government — just stay home and make babies I suppose.
Now I think AOC has got a lot to learn, and should be more thoughtful at times in her public statements. But on this issue she’s basically right.
The extermination camps in Nazi Germany didn’t start out that way. They were initially detention camps to keep undesirable individuals and potential political opponents away from the general German population — to punish them and perhaps reeducate them along the way. That group also included many non-Germans, gypsies and the like, and the German political leadership at the time (especially the opposition) were generally silent on the issue. Just like the Republicans in Congress are silent on the issue today.
Is this a perfect analogy? No. But it fits how demagogues go about consolidating power and feeding the prejudices of their core group of supporters by punishing groups of powerless people deemed inferior. Republicans in general are silent on how Trump and people like Steven Miller want to process potential immigrants and keep them from our shores. Those people of color are considered to be a threat rather than an asset to our Nation. And that is one of the core elements of racism, the fear of others.
Now we could debate all day on the benefits of immigration, but that is only an auxiliary issue to the general discussion of the need to remove the racist corrupt Republican Trump Administration from office. Because that is the central issue facing our Nation over the coming 18 months.
You are either against Trump or you’re with him. You will either vote to beat him at the ballot box, or vote for Trump. There are no third party alternatives because that is a vote for Trump.
John Sununu once famously said, as he pimped a racist line of attack against Obama for his guy Mitt, “Obama should learn how to be an American.”
A dog whistle if there ever was one. But today, Trump has dispensed with that Romney pretense and gone full racist. He will deport millions of hard working immigrants because it gives those old fat Republicans who voted for the “Great White Hope” a tingle up their chubby legs and makes them feel that they’re in charge again.
Well, it’s time for thinking Americans to take charge again, and vote these assholes out of office. Because if we don’t government and America will be forever changed by a reality television performer.
So, take Sununu’s advice, learn how to be an American, a real American, and vote Democratic next year. If nothing else than to save the Trump party from its self destructive ways.
Couldn’t agree with you more Keith in the basic of ‘voting’ the guy out of office….
People gotta VOTE….
THAT is their way of protest against Trump and the GOPer efforts against being an ‘American’
I think the 2020 Democratic slogan should be MAAA, Make America American Again.
Baseball caps with those words could also bear appropriate images of the Statue of Liberty or Abraham Lincoln.
Ridiculous analogy.
People were taken *from* their homes in Nazi Europe by the government. People who were citizens.
The border policy is not that and however bad it is, we should be able to agree that the U.S. Government is never going to execute these men, women, and children, or conduct experiments on them.
This is nothing new from Keith though who said many times that anyone who supported Mitt Romney was a Nazi sympathizer.
As I have pointed out….
Trump wants ICE to increase the population of the ‘camps’….
IT WILL GET WORST…..
Oh hell. Trunp already says he was treated worse than Lincoln. Tomorrow he’ll say he was treated worse than concentration camp victims and Republicans won’t say boo.
But we’ll still see CG on here claiming “both sides” and voting for Mickey Mouse for President and GOP sacrificial lambs in Illinois.
By the way, spent the past few days in chilly Chicago June weather. Had a blast in some hip NW and N Chicago nabes like Logan Square and Uptown. Had some deep dish at Pequods, jazz at Green Mill and beer and burgers at Billy Goat. All while wearing my Stanley Cup Champion St. Louis Blues gear of course 🙂
Party hearty, eh Scott?!
Well, at least he was smart enough not to wear St. Louis Cardinals gear.
We steered clear if Wrigley Field. It was the Dead &Company Concert there.
No Jerry Garcia-no Grateful Dead
Yes words matter,
It is critical that people speak out against the immoral border policy of family separation, I am rather positive that you would never describe those who were silent (all of those Republicans who “otherwise” share your values) as grotesque for their silence. Instead you would rather spend your time attacking AOC for using too strong language and comparing me to Trump.
Amen Z……
(1) Although many of my grandparents’ relatives (we don’t know how many) died in concentration camps (when not massacred on the stop) and although I’ve read a lot about Nazi concentration, labor and death camps, I didn’t immediately associate the phrase exclusively to them. Obviously it’s absurd, offensive and repulsive to compare ICE detention canters to Nazi concentration camps; certainly their main purpose isn’t killing or torturing anyone.
But I think of concentration camps as a whole class of camps. The term was first used by the British army to refer to camps established to house Boer families (in terrible conditions) and isolate them from the men fighting against the British in the South African wars. The Gulag and its predecessors were concentration camps, as I think is also true of the places holding hundreds of thousands, or millions, of Uighur Muslims in Xinjiang (Sinkiang) province in Western China.
“Internment Camps” is probably a more accurate name, but these days it no longer summons up (for example) images of the camps that housed Japanese and Japanese-Americans in World War II.
(2) I was actually surprised (but not astonished or even startled) how moderate, reasonable and carefully-considered Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez’s comments and answers seemed last Sunday when she spoke to Jonathan Karl on ABC This Week [with Geo. Stephanopoulos]. While there are differences in emphasis, she said little that Speaker Pelosi or even JamesB would differ from strongly. You can see that interview (18 minutes) here:
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/day-passes-pressure-impeach-grows-alexandria-ocasio-cortez/story?id=63691697
Perhaps AOC was choosing her words very carefully in order to stay in the good graces of Nancy Pelosi and her fellow Democrats in Congress. Maybe she’s thinking of joining the Democratic caucus’s leadership team to represent the progressive side of the caucus.
For a written transcript of her 18-minute interview This Week (plus some more rages from the presidential interview with Geo. Stephanopoulos):
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/week-transcript-16-19-president-donald-trump-rep/story
(AOC is rougjly in the middle of the transcript, between the commercial breaks.)
Not long ago, Mitt Romney was the only Republican U.S. Senator who voted against a Trump judicial nominee who had questioned Obama’s “Americanism.”
Romney explained that he always felt strongly against that sort of rhetoric and that when John Sununu made the questionable remarks he did, he insisted that Sununu publicly retract them, which is what happened at the time,
Keith of course has never publicly apologized for the litany of racially divisive comments he made publicly in Chicago a “long time ago.”
Yet Romnwy still won’t rule out endorsing Trump for reelection.
He all but ruled it out. It seems obvious he is not going to do that.
Not sure why he can’t just actually rule it out.
Then again I don’t understand thebhold Trump has on Republicans.
It’s pretty simple when you think about it.
It’s because when he actually does say “no” publicly, he will get a lot more attention at that time. Be patient. There is well over a year until the convention.
I also think it is entirely possible that there are a host of Republicans who have to at least think there is a slight possibility that “something might happen” to Trump whereas his reelection campaign ends or he has to be replaced and Romney is probably somebody that wants to be in position for that.
Romney could endorse Bill Weld today.
In the highly highly unlikely event Trump drops out and the GOP race is wide open, Mitt could state that things hace changed and announce himself.
Endorsing Bill Weld now would generate less attention than saying during the course of the general election that he will not vote for Trump.
Plus, Weld is sort of a joke himself. (I admire he had the guts to run though)
Right now, only political junkies are really following any of this.
i do not think Romney is stupid enough to endorse Bill Weld…..
Romney may not back Trump now…
but he doesn’t need Trump on his case till the election…
if Trump’s numbers are still in the basement this time next year?
i could foresee a GOPer meltdown….
Continued hypocrisy from james since he has said he would not vote for Bernie Sanders (or others) against Trump. No different than me really.
It seems to be Biden or Bust for james.
The comparison to the situation at the border to the actions of Nazi Germany are once again grotesque and despicable.
If people feel strongly against the policy at the border (as I do), then there should be a full realization just how much damage is done to that cause by AOC and those who make apologies for her (Keith seems to think that being a woman of color means she is more likely to make mistakes) do.
Comparisons to the Holocaust ring completely hollow, deters from the actual problem, and just plays exactly into what Trump wants.
my feeling is that Joe Biden Will be the nominee….
no one touches him right now
james you have one vote that you can cast when the nomination process is probably already decided.
I hate to break it to you, but the rest of the party doesn’t give an f about your “feelings.”
I dislike Trump but am almost certain to not vote for the D nominee (or Trump) as a matter of conscience. If your feeling about Biden is wrong, it seems like you will do the same as me. So, don’t be a hypocrite here. Own it.
The difference is I have long-held valid reasons not to vote for any of the Democrats.
james does not. He would stay home and not vote for Sanders (or others) against Trump simply as a matter of bruised ego.
As I have ,and will continue to point out,Most,though not all,of Trumps positions are standard Republican ones,i.e. Tax cuts for the wealthy, huge increases in the military budget,opposition to nvironmental regulations, support of deregulation in general, mouthing off about “spending” (while never doing anything about it),opposition to health care reforms (while mouthing off about unspecified “market” reforms),drill,drill drill and many more.
You are broadly supportive of most of these.Your main policy objections to his program is over trade and tariffs and some, but not all,parts of his immigration moves.
Indeed, except for your intense dislike of him personally,you could support a President Trump,with a more agreeable personality.
There’s much ideologically I do not support.
As I have always said though, character matters above all else. It wouldn’t matter to me if I agreed with him on 100 out of 100.
You have said that you were cheering for aHillary victory in 2016.
In the event that Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren is the Democratic nominee in 2020,are you going to be cheering for their victory?
I might “cheer” for them in the debates against Trump if they are the only other people in it with him.
To be completely honest though, as a conservative, the idea of a Sanders or Warren as President scares me about 1000 times more than Hillary as President would have.
Hillary is transactional. She would have followed the polls. I would have found her far preferable than Obama on a host of issues actually. Warren and Sanders actually believe what they say.
This is the risk of nominating a Sanders or a Warren. Some Republicans who held those nose and voted for Hillary may not be able to do it this time.
I expect Trump to receive around 95-97% of the Vote of those who call themselves “Republicans.”
Certainly that’s not unreasonable in that polls consistently show about 90% support of him by self described Republicans.Further, I would imagine that most of the 10% who oppose him will still vote for him in preference to most of the Democrats,although Biden would probably do a little better.
If Trump is to be defeated,it’s up to Democrats and real Independents.
Trump has Republicans and Republicans who call themselves Imdependents pretty much wrapped up.
He’ll be under 90 among Republicans.
The number of people calling themselves Republicans has been shrinking under him.
We do have to realize that there were a whole lot of upscale McCain/Romney voters who actually voted for Hillary last time.
Will they vote for a Sanders or a Warren? That might be more doubtful.
These are all reasons why I think there is tremendous room for a “centrist” to make a run outside of the two major parties this time and am disappointed that nobody seems to have the guts to try it.
I see you still think there is some real possibility of Trump not running again.
Absent a major health issue,I see none.
i’m sure republicans would LIVE to run against sanders or warren….
In full reactive personal attack mode I see over 40 year old issues that only a stalker could know. Full disclosure I got drunk in college, and even smoked grass.
Well, a few points and then I have work to do, and, a fundraiser to get to in SF.
First, John Sununu did back down from his racist statement about our last legitimate President because Colin Powell took him to task publicly. But, the original statement was already out there, and, as we all know, retractions get far less publicity than the original statement (every time). But then Sununu followed up on this by telling Piers Morgan in October that “he was pretty sure that Colin Powell endorsed President Obama because they’re both black!” So much for a retraction. Racists know how to blow those dog whistles.
If Romney really objected why didn’t he remover Sununu on the spot? Nope he left him there to keep dropping racist comments through the rest of the election. Because he needed those statements.
Second, even though these were clearly intended as race baiting comments, the Romney campaign were a bunch of rank amateurs compared to Trump and his Republican Party today. And, the current immigration policy is a classic example of that anti-people of color story line the Republicans have perfected over the last 50 plus years.
So, we now deflect with a wildly reactive critiscim of a Freshman Congresswoman of color to deflect and somehow bizarrely claim that her valid critique of a horrible policy “rings hollow.” Actually we’ve seen this story before, you cannot defend the indefensible, so you shoot at the messenger.
Finally, there are no valid reasons to not vote for the Democratic nominee in the next election if the opponent is Donald Trump — none, not if you’re the patriot you claim to be. You either don’t care about the damage he is doing to America, or you are so blinded by partisanship that you cannot bring yourself to do the right thing.
Let’s all learn how to be real Americans shall we. We can go back to petty partisanship in January of 2012 after this scourge is out of the White House, and the Republicans can go back to caring about deficits and free trade.
More like 30 years ago. You made many headlines at the time in Chicago. It doesn’t take a stalker to learn about you. As I have said, long before I ever knew I would correspond with you, you were a topic in a college course I took.
Romney says he told Sununu to withdraw the comments or leave the campaign. Sununu did. Sounds like Romney exerted leadership there.
I have many reasons not to vote for the ultimate Democrat nominee. For one thing, I am on record as opposing socialism all my life.
james, on the other hand, who agrees with Democrats, on basically every issue, has zero reason to not vote for the eventual nominee, but he is saying if it is not Biden, he will do so.
Work on him first,
Hopefully Keith has learned the lessons of his failure from Ohio when he went around insulting voters while under the guise of trying to gin up support for Hillary and probably cost her at least a few votes. Job well done!
the nominee will NOT BE a lefty CG..
the vote in Democratic primaries MAINLY. comes from blacks in southern states….
sanders and warren won’t beat biden there….
in most of the other states?
moderates are the majority….
sanders lost out last time due to this…
with warren and sanders even splitting things?
there is virtually no way biden can lose….
so?
to me?
you line just doesn’t matter….
CG spoke of how he is “disappointed” there is not a major third party or independent candidate running yet in 2020. Combined minor party vote in 2016 was 6%. I predict it will drop off to about half that if not lower in 2020.
If that happens Trump will simply not be able to win again with 46% of the vote because if Democrats get the other 51 to 52% it is virtually impossible for Republicans to squeak by in enough battleground states to amass 270 electoral votes.
So it’s understandable that Republicans like CG want a strong third party to run. It’sone of the only ways they can keep the WH
No, I would want an Independent candidate to win, just like you wanted Ross Perot and Ralph Nader to win when you voted for them.
As to what the result would be? Different people think different things. If the person is someone who appeals to traditional Republicans, wouldn’t it hurt Trump and help you guys? You shouldn’t be rooting against it perhaps.
Every four years we hear this type talk.
This is the year for a real Third Party candidate and it never pans out.
The two party system is too ingrained in the American psyche.
The next President is going to be the nominee of either the Democratic or the Republican Party,
All talk to the contrary is purely for amusement value.
You know full well an independent candidate can’t win in 2020 so please…let’s be serious
As to my previous third party votes I admit I wanted Perot to win–but knew it was a long shot. I did not want Nader to win. The thought never crossed my mind. I was simply so underwhelmed by my choices at the time it was a pure protest vote.
Just as the percentage of non major party vote dropped precipitously in 2004 as those of us who cast a protest vote saw what it resulted in I believe the Indy third party vote will drop in 2020.
GHW Bush was able to capitalize on that and win 51% of the vote–a 4 point increase from his 2000 showing while Kerry got roughly the same 48% Gore received in 2000.
There’s nothing to indicate Trump could get 51% of the overall vote like Dubya did. Even if he starts a war like Dubya did he won’t be able to capitalize on it in the sane manner. Nor do I think he can get up to 16% of the African American or 44% of the Hispanic vote the GOP got in 2004.
So yes, Republicans want a tbird party candidate to help them win again.
Of course.
A Third Party candidate would only help Donald Trump.Except here,I’ve never heard anyone make a contrary argument.
CG only tries to make this argument because he so abhors the Democratic Party that he just can’t bring himself to concede the obvious…
That the Only way to get rid of Donald Trump is to elect a Democrat.
Ironically, while he might find this option distasteful,it likely would be in the best interests of the long term health of the Republican Party.
As long as we are dealing in impossible– I wonder what CG would do if a center left independent candidate gained so much steam that the Democrats nominated him or her at a brokered convention?
My guess is he would grumble about said Indy selling out and cast a throwaway vote for Bob Michel or something.
I’ll hope that happens.
If they oppose the Iran Deal and support Israel and the Hyde Amendment, they will likely have my vote.
And I would add that if Trump wins again, the Trumpists will further consolidate their gains in the GOP. People like Corker and Flake already left and were replaced by Trumpists. If Trump wins again, it will be even harder for a Republican who actually believes in things like the Constitution or standing up to North Korea & Russia to win. After eight years of Reagan, virtually every Republican was a Reagan-Republican. “Moderate” Republicans were either defeated or left and the same will be true of Trump. Look who is running on the GOP statewide tickets. Is there anyone who doubts that Huckabee-Sanders has a great future in the GOP? And Corey will argue that there is blame for this “on both sides”; that it is the Democrats who are more like Trump, and we should apologize.
(I deleted a rather unkind joke about Lyndsey Graham here)
i pose a question to my friends here….
If….
IF Donald Trump loses his day job?
What will GOPer’s likely Do?
will they be able find themselves ?
or?
Will there be a political blood letting?
The GOP will likely remain the Trump Party. Regardless of what you fhink about Trump, you have to be impressed at his success in getting the GOP behind him. Think what a more intelligent person with Trump’s values could have accomplished. The GOP recognizes this and they are not into principles.
Anyone else on this?
There will be a political blood letting which will make this supposed “ fight” for the Democratic nomination look like a church picnic.
Establishment Republicans will be in full recriminatory mode over Trumps damage to the”R” brand while more ambitious Right Wingers will be falling all over each other trying to claim the mantle of Leader of the Cult.
I agree Jack…..
Would some people waking up in daze asking themselves WTF happened to them?
Why did they lose their minds for a snake oil salesman from NYC?
I heard you make it many times last year jack. You said you would love to see Kasich run as an Independent because it would help the Democrat.
Gotta run.