Why?
Cars that do NOT use gas….
Do NOT pay the state’s or feds gas taxes….
This is ANOTHER example of how saving the environment IS gonna cost ya money….
Use LESS gas or water?
The gas , electricity or water?….The utility company rises your bill….
Natural and organic food tends to cost more, right?
In the future the government WILL know how far you have travel in your vehicle and probably where , so they can send you a bill for that….
Progress….
Widespread production of hydrogen-powered cars has not come to pass, but GM is eyeing an all-electric fleet by 2035 with the backing of the Biden administration. That has lawmakers in state capitals across the country and in Washington increasingly confronting the question that troubled Starr two decades ago.
Many have settled on an answer: charging drivers a penny or two for each mile behind the wheel. But while such a system would bring in tax dollars for roads, it also would present a new set of obstacles.
States are leading the way, with Oregon and Utah launching the first programs and several others running pilots to test technology and build public support. The approach has bipartisan support in Washington, and Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg has signaled his openness.
But existing programs operate on a small scale, and a national system would mean tracking millions of vehicles. Supporters are pushing for the quick adoption of proposals to maintain funding of the nation’s crumbling infrastructure, while opponents, including environmental advocates, argue the shift is premature at a time when electric vehicles are a fraction of cars on the road. New fees also would slow their adoption, they say….
…
The gas tax brought in about $26 billion and a tax on diesel an additional $10 billion in 2019, before the coronavirus pandemic pushed down the number of miles Americans drove. The Congressional Budget Office forecast in May that gas-tax revenue would decline about 1 percent each year as fuel economy improved and growth slowed in the number of miles driven. At the same time, it projected that transportation-related spending would increase in line with inflation, leaving the highway fund increasingly out of balance….
…
Surveys of drivers involved in pilot programs revealed questions of privacy and data security as top concerns. Many environmentalists also are opposed, saying that taxing gasoline also is also an effective tax on carbon dioxide emissions. Under a miles-driven system, the highest-emission vehicles stand to gain a tax break….
Everything in life “costs you money” James.
Yes Jack….
Everything indeed costs money…
I agree….
Oh yes and that includes there dumb foreign wars you are so enamored of.
Ever check how much Afghanistan has cost you over the past twenty years ?
And for what?
Fighting “terrorism?”
Hell you’ve got one of the major political parties in this country and a former President excusing terrorism.
American and NATO troops will be in Iraq and Afghanistan for a LONG time….
American military will be in the Middle East longer….
Yes and that has nothing to do with my comment.
You couldn’t care less about spending money on that type of garbage.
But to help the environment ?A few more bucks drives you crazy.
The cost vs benefit thing rides in everyone’s mind Jack….
People have to live in today….
There WILL have to be a balance….
Not everyone is not as rich as u and don’t worry from pay check to pay check, eh?
That’s pretty weak even for the likes of you.
I’m not rich so I don’t know where that latest Lie of yours came from.Then again, someone who lies as much of you just spouts them off indiscriminately,right?
Funny, you agree that everything costs money,however, you single out environmental spending for particular criticism.
Very telling as to your priorities.
YES Jack….
Cost most defiantly IS A factor….
I have most people with me on this view
Who else from the blog shares your views on the environment? Name names!
I know u are familiar with cost / benefit right Z?
We had lots of conversations of cost/benefit. During the healthcare debate and you argued that there was no benefit of a national healthcare system. A public healthcare system such as England’s would have have enabled more people to get vaccinated quicker. But I understand that you would happily pay more in private insurance costs than in taxes even if it caused more lives lost because that is what you want.
Ur comment is not correct…..
My view was that Americans will not accept a Universal Health system that takes away private insurance and choice ….
I have been correct on this….
Even with the improvements in the countries healthcare system both have stayed in the system…
I don’t recall Jack saying he was rich or even implying it.
I do recall Jack once indicating he had steak for dinner. Maybe that is why James thinks Jack is rich?
I have no idea where that came from.
Of course we all know how he just makes things up.
I’ve done alright .Im no big time attorney.Did make one big hit about twenty years ago in a medical malpractice case that I was lucky to come by.I had the right idea to associate an attorney who specialized in that area.
Otherwise, a buck here a buck there.Now that I’m semi retired I pretty much just prosecute cases in some local municipalities .Not bad money for my efforts,certainly nothng extravagant though.
Probably the steak dinner did it 😉Z
Did you understand the gibberish that James wrote? If so, you should have been a decoder in the military!
Yeah it’s gibberish alright.
I just know how he hates environmental programs so I deducted that it was another of his anti environmental screeds.
I have solar panel’s on my house Jack….
I’m ALL in ….
What about U?
Again?
It SAVES ME money….
Idealism’s are alright..
Personal spending money cone first to mist people…
Well, I am impressed because I think you did understand him. So “organic foods tend to cost more” was part of James rant of the foolishness of environmental policies? I guess I could imagine James going there.
This whole discussion reminds me of when CG saud I had no room to talk about the troubles of the working poor and those who live paycheck to paycheck because I occasionally went out to eat.
This was back in P1 days when GW Bush was still President.
I very much doubt I ever said that. The only thing I may have ever mentioned were all the vacations you went on when you were you were fine with coal miners losing jobs, etc. If you think that was something said years ago on P1, perhaps it was one of my occasional imposters.
If I was “fine” with coal miners losing jobs it was because I saw no need for government to prop up a dying industry that is killing the Earth im order to benefit the few owners of said businesses.
I guess you are on the side of Donald Trump preferring keeping these jobs at the expense of the environment and health of all of us–imcluding the miners over retraining of said workers.
Well, I do not know what you would say to the families of those workers. Does change have to happen all at once? When are the “Green Jobs” going to be actual paycheck jobs that people can have? I guess all these families need to immediately become White Water Rafting Guides for yuppie vacationers. Is there enough demand for that?
And the fact of the matter is that there are a ton of blue collar workers who believed, rightly or wrongly, that Donald Trump cared about them, and elitist liberals did not.
It’s funny because Republicans normallt love stories of someone changing theor life and starting a business. I guess not if they are river guides catering to “yuppies” (which is laughable as plenty of messages for months to go on this trip).
Post vaccination You should travel more. It would open your eyes.
Plenty of us saved for months.
The callousness for miners would never be present on the left if they were in another line of work.
Yes, economies and industries change over a long period of time, but literally, what do you say to the family that has the breadwinner working in a mine (and making decent money) to send their kid to college? Not everybody is going to become a Coder the next day,
Anyone in your family work in mining CG? My grandfather worked in the lead mines. Those disappeared long ago for the same reasons coal mines are now. He apparently only did it a few years between farming and working in a quarry.
Coal could be a benefit for the United States and with technology be utilized in an environmentally safe way.
But the general point is that this is the livelihood for many people currently. They have made their entire life plans and for that of their families around that. Democrats, such as Hillary, were perceived as taking glee about miners being put out of work. It has become an applause line for Democrats rather than any sort of realization that people’s real lives and livelihoods are involved. One does not have to be in that industry themself to have compassion for them,
You still didn’t answer as to anyone I. Your family working in mining.
Compared to your family, my family is probably newer to the U.S. Nobody in my family has lived in an area of this country where there are mines.
I do not know everything about what my great-grandparents, etc, did to support themselves and families in Europe and there isn’t anyone left for me to ask.
Manchin is NOT gonna give up the miners without a fight people….
Coal cannot be used in an environmentally safe way. It can be used in a “safer” way, but not without heavy subsidies, even larger than they are now. And why would any effective government want to subsidize an industry that causes so much environmental harm? That goes against every economics principle in the book! Those mining companies should be required to pay for the environmental cost they are imposing on society. And the workers themselves of course would still be in among the most hazardous industries in the country. If those workers become disabled or suffer from black lung, it is the mining companies that should have to pay the costs.
It is disingenuous to give miners hope that coal can effectively compete with other energy sources. It can’t – at least not without heavy subsidies. There are much better energy alternatives to coal, and that won’t change, and ethical politicians should be honest and state the obvious. Coal is not a realistic solution. And if there are rare instances that coal can still compete as an energy source under certain conditions, the amount of miners that would be needed for a mine is only a tiny percentage of what it was 20 years ago. Machines will now do a much larger percent of the work. Only a small fraction of workers are now needed for coal mining work relative to what was needed in a mine 20 years ago. This concept is even more true for mining than it is for manufacturing.
Good points Zreebs.
As for Manchin?Sure he’s going to try to save the primary industry of his sate.No surprise there.
The larger point to be made is stated here though.Coal is a dying industry.
Hell even here in dark red S.C. the state is trying to phase out coal fired power plants.
Indeed this whole discussion (like many here) is rather bizzare,
Saving coal?Really?
“Saving” coal is really just about sticking it to the libruls.
As I said conservatives normally LOVE stories about people who get off subsidized programs–because as Zreebs points out coal is a subsidized program–and start new lives. It’s amazing that my story of the coal miner turned whitewater guide who said making the shift saved his life stuck with CG all these years. And even more amazing that he somehow uses it to paint me as out of touch and uncaring about the plight of those who work in an area dominated by a dying industry.
Because typing on a blog is going to help the people of West Virginia more than–you know–actually traveling to the state (4 times I’ve done the Gauley river and can’t wait to go again) to pump money into their tourist industry and those who own and operate lodging, restaurants, touring companies, etc.
As Jack said–bizarre.
I’m curious as to why after all these years CG remembers that he thought it was untoward for me to go on a vacation that I saved money for because coal miners were losing their jobs.
What was I supposed to do? Stay home and convert my furnace to coal burning to keep them employed?
Silly.
One thing had nothing to do with another. I just noted that you went on a lot of vacations. Nothing wrong with that, if you can afford it.
The coal miner issue is different. I think you are being a bit indifferent and callous towards people just to suit a personal political agenda. I don’t think telling them to become Whitewater tour guides or computer coders is viable in most cases.
I also do recall that despite your professed loyalty to organized labor and American industry, that you said you owned a foreign car. Perhaps that has since changed. I know that more recently you said that if you had your way there would be virtually no car ownership and that people would partake in public transportation. That would put a lot of Americans out of work as well (including family in the past, if that is somehow relevant.)
but at least we have moved on from the “Fifteen years ago, he said I was wrong to go out to eat.”
No, I would not have said that. Supporting the food or restaurant industry is a good thing, especially if one is not a great cook themselves.
Oh for cripes sake. I told one story about a guy who left the coal mines to become a successful whitewater guide, it wasn’t meant to demean anyone else.
I grew up in a union family. Unlike you I believe in the power of unions and collective bargaining to improve the lives of millions of Americans the same way my family was saved. Not every specific industry can be saved. Not now nor decades ago. How many typewriter factories are around these days? But you see I believe that the person who worked in the typewriter factory should have been able to train for another skilled position in a viable industry that paid a comparable amount. Not be told that they are typewriter factory workers and anyone who suggests they can do something else is an “elitist” just trying to ruin their way of life.
I never said I wanted to do away with car ownership. But then and now I believe our transportation policies should factor in those who are not able to drive. When you get fast food out in the suburbs do you ever think about how long it takes the person who served your food to get to work if they don’t have a car? And wouldn’t expansion of public transportation put a lot of people IN to work??
Of course a Trump Republican wouldn’t think about that. It’s about making me, a middle class guy who sometimes goes on vacation and drives a used foreign car “out of touch”.
Yes I called you a Trump Republican because while I know you detest the guy the same siding with coal miners over their identity as coal miners rather than actually helping them is pure Trump. And it’s not by accident. Trump is not an anomaly in the GOP. He is the end product of decades of Limbaughification and FOX News broadcasting.
There’s really not much daylight between you–a union bashing, tax cut for the rich loving Republican who still tries to find the most minute aspect of my life to paint me as “elitist”–and Trump supporters who do the exact same thing.
Economics IS the great equalizer….
YES…..
Jack and Z know that…
They are just messing with me….
I’m not “messing” with you.
Just calling you out for what you are,
“An Anti environmentalist”
In fact ,since you admitted that everything in life costs money,what’s all this cost/benefit stuff about?
Are lots of people ok with paying a little more for a cleaner environment and to combat climate change issues ?Yes.
You’re not.
I think we all understand that without uh “messing” with you.
Oh and btw?What “benefit” do we get for having troops and spending billions of dollars in Afghanistan and Iraq.
You seem to have no problem with that.
Your “fiscal conservatism” seems to be selective ,sort of like most Republicans.
“Oh and btw?What “benefit” do we get for having troops and spending billions of dollars in Afghanistan and Iraq.”
Now, this position sounds a WHOLE lot more like Trump than Biden.
That’s been my position for years.
Since the early 2000s
Long before Trump became President.
It’s still my position.
And I think a lot of Democrats and ,apparently, Republicans share it.
That’s been Trump’s position for years too, one of the only ones he has been somewhat consistent on.
You have the right to your position, but do you generally feel the same way about why we have troops in Germany or South Korea?
Yeah there’s no appetite from Democrats or Trumpublicans for Dick Cheney intervention.
The only difference is Trump Republicans still champion outrageous amounts of defense spending.
Attacking a Cheney on foreign policy is about as Trumpian as it gets these days.
Well attacking a Clinton is Trumpian too, even if he doesn’t have quite the same hatred towards her as you.
I wasn’t aware the there were Republicans still aggressively defending Dick Cheney on foreign policy?
And Jack can talk all the trash he wants….
No environmental action is going ANYWHERE that will adversely effect the American economy …
The politics simply will NOT work….
And?
As I point out…
You save?
Somehow the money/revenue thing HAS to remain fairly the same for industry …
Yes….
America IS Capitalist country….
The All Mighty Dollar reins….
That weither Jack or anybody else cares…
The ‘benefit’ CG is the fight is 5,000 miles away….
Bush broke it….
We now own it ….
The Good…Bad and yes Ugly….
We won’t just walk away
Conservatives are more likely to criticize windmills and electrical cars than they are coal. I’m not even being sarcastic. I mean that literally.
It just shows what an anti-intellectual force conservatives have become as if sticking their fat heads in the sand is somehow going to make environmental problems go away.
And as Scott indicated, there was a time that conservatives generally opposed subsidies. I guess the new “conservatives” now support them if the can convince enough coal miners that more coal mining is the answer, and the Democrats are uncaring when they tell the truth about coal mining.
And I guess “conservatives” now believe parents are uncaring if they tell the truth about cigarettes to their children.
I couldn’t agree with Zreebs more, conservatives (although they really aren’t conservative when it comes to the environment) hate things like solar, windmill power, and electric cars.
Well get ready, here they come.
This last week we took our first trip in a year (by car) to Palm Springs, and the South Coast to visit friends who traditionally winter in SoCal (they flew out, something we are not ready to do yet). Outdoor dining, masks, and everyone had at least one vaccine shot.
Eating out, something that was a topic here yesterday, was safe. except the local restaurants in Orange County who in general appeared to be ignoring the rules and allowed in-door dining. In fact, the Huntington Beach crowd was mostly maskless, and there are still lots of Trump flag wavers on Highway 1 facing the beach.
As far as electric cars go, the price of a gallon of gas in Newport was $4. Why someone would be opposed to electric cars is beyond me, and yes, we now need to find innovative ways to finance transportation development.
But, I digress.
There is no such thing as “Clean Coal” – it doesn’t exist and either do very many coal jobs in West Virginia. The number of jobs declined during the Trump years and is still declining. I suspect that among the five posters here that I have spent the most time in the State. WV was our weekend destination during the fall and summer when we lived in DC. It is beautiful, but poor and very backwards. People are leaving for other opportunities — leaving an aging, racist, uneducated and Republican population.
The fact that the WV voters buy into the Republican bullshit about Coal would be funny if it weren’t so sad. But, there are other reasons these poor white folks vote Republican, as most of us know and some won’t admit.