That’s what a piece in the Hill is suggesting….
Hmmmm?
Did Kentucky GOP Senator ‘get over’ with his fellow Republicans saying that Trump being impeached was actually not even constitutional since Trump is now a private citizen?
(I’m NOT a lawyer but this argument seems pretty damn stupid….Donald J. Trump urged the crowds on…It shouldn’t matter if he’s the President or a Garbage man…He set the thing in motion…Politicans get indicted after leaving office all the time..What’s the difference?)
Or?
Is Senator Murkoski trying get some political breathing room in shock from the Trump supportive vote by 45 Republican Senate members?
Folks?
Republicans KNOW Trump IS guilty as hell…
But they all the sudden do NOT care that their lives where in danger and now are looking forward their next election race….
You could add this to Donald Trump STILL getting over on his long list illegal actions as President….
The only hope is the state DA’s….
“Whether or not we’re going to see members change their mind after they’ve already taken a vote, I think that’s hard for people to do,” she said.
“Because [people] are like, ‘Wait, wait, wait. You voted to say that this was not constitutional and now you’re changing your mind?’ We don’t get a lot of credit and we don’t get a lot of allowance to change our mind around here,” she added.
“That’s why I think it was a little unfortunate that we had this very spontaneous vote on an extraordinarily significant matter without the considered debate and brief and analysis,” she said. “People had to make really quick decisions.”
Murkowski voted with only four other Republicans, Sens. Susan Collins(Maine), Mitt Romney (Utah), Pat Toomey (Pa.) and Ben Sasse (Neb.), to table the motion declaring the trial unconstitutional.
Sixty-seven senators or two-thirds of the Senate present in the chamber must vote for the article of impeachment to convict the former president.
Murkowski said she and her colleagues were caught “flat-footed” by the procedural vote. She said she was not aware until Tuesday morning that she would be voting on the motion from Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.) later in the day….
…
His motion stated that “as of noon last Wednesday, Donald Trump holds none of the positions listed in the Constitution — he is a private citizen” and therefore the trial “violates the Constitution.”
Paul’s motion also asserted that Chief Justice John Roberts’s absence from the proceeding “demonstrate[s] that this is not a trial of the President, but of a private citizen.”
Darrell West, director of governance studies at the Brookings Institution, said Tuesday’s vote largely predetermined the outcome of the trial before it even got started.
“It’s a procedural motion, but it’s a proxy for the real thing. That result does not look very promising for Democrats,” he said. “If that many Republicans feel the trial is unconstitutional, they’re unlikely to convict on the substance.”
…
“I think there was a lot of agreement,” said Sen. Joni Ernst (R-Iowa). “It was a compelling argument, and we’re pursuing a private citizen when perhaps there could be a criminal indictment rather than Congress.”…
I commented on this earlier that since 45 Republicans are now saying that this trial itself is “unconstitutional,” they shouldn’t even attend the proceedings.
They will,of course, because; otherwise, Trump would be convicted.
I don’t know about being “duped” since the vote was very clear and had been discussed for several days given Rand Paul’s public comments. She appears to be implying that a debate would have given other Senators the information necessary to vote against Paul’s motion.
We all know that isn’t true. Is she now trying to find a way to vote against impeachment?
The headline is misleading, but the Hill is very Fox like in the way it presents things. It was created as a right wing alternative to Roll Call.
The whole “see there aren’t the votes there to convict” argument ignores the crimes Trump has committed. He actually sent a mob to do bodily harm to the very Senators who will serve on this jury. Think how weak the Republicans are who will vote to acquit him, especially those who voted to convict over a lie involving a blow job.
They shouldn’t get off that easy, make them go on record.
Keith?
We could start a list going back 4 years….
The guy IS a Lying crook….
But he SILL isn’t going to be held accountable for anything on a federal level…
Not Mueller, Barr or Congress…
The states could be the answer….criminally (I doubt ) but ALREADY civilly
The table is being set for Biden to call on the Senate to focus on an appropriate Censure and to forgo a trial so that the Senate can work on the “people’s business.”
I am not at all saying I agree with that, but that is what is looking like more of a possibility. Democrats will hail Biden as a “wise healer”, etc.
In the meantime, the Justice Department may be doing other things in regards to Trump.
This involves the high crime of treason.
I asked this question before, does anyone doubt that if Pence or Pelosi had been captured and executed (there was a gallows waiting on the lawn of the Capitol) Trump would not have declared Marshall Law and still be sitting in the White House.
Now Biden is supposed to reasonable and call for censure (letting Republican enablers off the hook for being on record on the issue of treason. Really?
Here’s a suggestion. Imagine what the Republicans would have done if it had been Obama who summoned the crowd to the Capitol to murder (there are five dead) elected Members of Congress. Now, just do that!
A. It’s Martial Law
B. The Secret Service or Capitol Hill police, assigned to protect Pence, and Pelosi respectively, would have used very large weapons to gun down anyone who would have actually gotten close to Penec or Pelosi. Thankfully, that did not have to happen.
But no, Trump would not still be President. That was decided at the election.
Let’s be clear. I am all for the Impeachment. Trump did something every day in office worthy of Impeachment and I think everyone should be on record. I just think Biden is probably going to try to make it go away and use it to his political advantage.
Like I said, just do what the Republicans would have done to Obama if he had sent a mob to the Capitol.
The political advantage is putting Republicans on record voting to acquit Donald Trump. Because the vast majority will vote with treason.
Anything else is just a backdoor win for the Republicans who are under Trump’s thumb.
Why Kevin McCarthy is on his way to Florida to kiss Trump’s ass.
And ur right Keith…..
They would have tried harder for Obama….
But this IS the current landscape….
This is the point of the whole discussion James. You don’t understand what the political landscape is currently, or was then for that matter.
Republicans play for keeps, Democrats worry what others might say and rethink everything.
This whole conversation is about the Republicans, once again, dictating what the Democrats are supposed to think regarding their own beliefs and morals.
Donald Trump committed treason. Does anyone doubt that?
Right now Republicans are in the pocket of Donald J. Trump. They desperately want to distance themselves from him without having to make the hard vote on his guilt. And, of course, right on cue, you and our resident Republican think that a censure vote is preferable. It isn’t.
Many speculated that Republican lawmakers might be ready to move past Donald Trump once he lost his re-election bid.
But the early indicators suggest otherwise (from Political Wire):
139 of the 211 House Republicans (66 percent) and 8 of the 50 Senate Republicans (16 percent) attempted to overturn the election results.
201 of the 211 House Republicans (95 percent) voted against the article of impeachment that said Trump incited the insurrection at the Capitol.
45 of the 50 Senate Republicans (90 percent) voted against even holding the trial on the article of impeachment.
House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy is on a South Florida fundraising swing and is expected to meet with Trump tomorrow.
Whatever “private” rumblings there might be about Trump among GOP lawmakers, their public actions speak loudly.
Most Republicans lawmakers — and thus the GOP voters in their districts back home — have no interest in distancing themselves from Trump.
So, once again, make those Senators take the hard vote (Tim Kaine notwithstanding and he will vote to convict). The Republicans in Congress and many on the State level cannot escape or seem to have no interest in escaping Trump. Make them pay.
Democrats now control the White House, House, and Senate.
*If* they decide to forgo a Senate impeachment trial for another option, not one Democrat here will express any disagreement. It will be praised as the right move all along.
If Impeachment fails,sure I’ll support censure.
Why not?
And why would anybody find that unusual ?
How are Republicans going to vote?
Oh bullshit.
Another what about before the what actually happens.
The vast majority of the Democrats in this country think this thing needs to go to trial.
The folks that fueled the election, especially the runoff in Georgia will demand it.
But, you know that Corey.
The Democrats are famously not organized, but on the plus side they don’t take orders from someone like Donald Trump like the Republicans do.
It would be so nice for you if the Democrats let all these traitors off the hook and didn’t make them vote for or against impeachment. After all, your next Presidential nominee not named Trump will most likely be casting one of those votes.
Ms. Lindsay was just on television threatening to shut down the Senate because this trial is so unfair. Like that blow job trial was so fair Lindsay. We all know Trump has pictures Lindsay.
I know that this would be so much nicer for Republicans if they were let off the moral hook and not made to chose between what is right and Donald Trump. But they have been doing it for four years, so why stop now?
So we can maintain fantasies like the armed Republican mob that stormed the Capitol wouldn’t have attempted to arrest or harm both the Vice President or Speaker, or that somehow if that had actually taken place that Trump would not have used those actions to maintain power. Yes, let’s discount treason. Why not, it’s just another step in what Republicans have been doing to our country for years.
Once again, all those Senators were witnesses and possible victims of the mob that invaded the Capitol. They heard Trump’s words inciting violence. They need to be held accountable.
Thank You for laying out the landscape Leith..
Sure looks like what has been said here…
Trump STILL controls the jury and life MUST go on….
The states
H. Keith has comprehension issues as well as spelling ones.
I support the idea of an Impeachment Trial. But it might be that the Democrats do not want to go through with that. *If* that happens, I think Democrats will praise it, at least on this blog.
Of course, the irony is that people want to let DJT off the hook for the actions he took as President, since he is no longer President, which reminds me of how Keith was able to get away with the potentially illegal and certainly unethical things he did online using government time and resources as a highly paid Transportation Department official, because he kept his identity hidden until he just became safely retired.
No one is against a trial here…
I agree with Jack, once Impeachment fails we can censure Trump and we will have two chances to put these Republicans (most likely one of their future Presidential candidates) on record.
But, to pretend, with more “what about” deflections, that the Republicans are not trying to push the conversation away from taking a tough vote is ridiculous.
These personal insults and ridiculous accusations aside, the fact remains that the Republicans are trying to have it both ways on Trump.
They should not be allowed to get away with it.
Censure is bull shit….
The guy IS gone…
Easy to do though…
But there should be. Trial even if it’s just several half days…
I would also want to move on to “censure” after an Impeachment vote, but my point is being deliberately distorted.
It is looking more likely that Democrats do not want to have the vote and let Trump declare victory. (If it were up to me, there would be the vote.)
So, I think that it is increasingly likely (if not certain) that they change the end-game altogether to Censure and praise Biden for “bringing the country together.”
True believers on the left will be pissed, but the Democrats here will stand and salute.
I really don’t get your point.
So you are for censure ,if impeachment can’t work ,but somehow are critical of Democrats for doing what you yourself favor?
Ok????
jack, that depends on if the trial is held or not. I think it should be held, but I think there are some indications (not that I am anywhere near certain on this), that it will not happen.
Do you disagree?
I think there’s a 50/ 50:chance it will be held.
However whether if it is or not ,and even whether your scenario that Biden himself tries to call it off comes true, who is responsible for Trump not being convicted and the real villains here?
45 Republican MAGA red hat boot licking cowards in the Senate.
Once again, doesn’t matter what these weasel Republicans will do when the vote for impeachment comes up. Trump broke the law and the entire Congress was a witness.
To somehow say Biden should call on Congress to now censor rather than impeach is simply Lucy with the football. “For the good of the Nation we should just let this go because it’s too divisive!” Gerald Ford said that too, he was wrong and he lost because of it.
If I recall correctly he was wearing a pinstripe suit when he pardoned Nixon. He looked great but he was still wrong.
Why would Biden and the Democrats in Congress fall into the same trap Ford did? This type of gesture from Biden would begin and end with the Democrats capitulating on a censure rather than impeachment motion. Moscow Mitch would say thanks and tell Chuck to bend over.
These types of crimes require accountability through a public voting record. You can tell by the rhetoric here and in Congress that the Republicans want to avoid that at all cost. They are basically promising another riot if they are forced into a trial.
Like I said yesterday, the next GOP nominee most likely sits in the Senate. They don’t want to have to take this vote. That alone is reason to have one.
Everyday something new comes out about the planning and execution of this treasonous event. Numerous local Republicans took part with financial support from our Republican President’s campaign. A public trial focuses attention on this stain on our Democracy and may directly tie some Republican Members to the planning.
We know the outcome of the trail. So what? If the Republicans had any sense and backbone they would vote to convict and then vote to deny Trump public office in the future.
But like their nominating convention in 2016 they are simply too afraid of the Trump voter (aka the Republican base) to do the right thing. Of course we shouldn’t after 50 plus years of racist dog whistles expect anything less.
I am always amused at the highly emotional response I get from pointing out the hypocrisy behind the Republican efforts to retain power. As Zreebs often points out, power is their governing philosophy. But yesterday was a banner day in that regard.
You are either committed to holding an act of treason accountable or not. Suggestions of reconciliation over these high crimes is both hypocritical and so very Republican.
And given the way the GOP responded, why would anyone think that another insurrection by Republicans won’t happen again?
When Bin Laden brought down the WTC, did anyone (other than I think one person in Congress) say we shouldn’t respond to the act of terrorism and it would be better to just let past bygones be bygones?
The GOP says we shouldn’t do anything to punish the insurrection organizer. But appeasement to terrorists doesn’t work. Just like Bin Laden, Trump doesn’t think he did anything wrong. In fact, he expects Republicans to still praise him. At least in 2001, the GOP weren’t trying to appease Bin LAden like they are appeasing Trump today.
And while I am at it, when is the GOP going to require that Green must resign? She would be replaced by another conservative Republican, so they won’t even lose any power – which is so, so important to them.
Good post Zreebs. My Senator Josh Hawley as a 15 yr old wrote a column defending militias in the wake of the Oklahoma City bombing that killed 168 Americans.
Appeasing right wing terrorism is now a tenet of conservative Republican ideology.
Good questions Z….
It don’t matter….
They ARE politicians ….
Jan 6 is in the rear window….
THAT IS the Reality….
Pelosi JUST said in a presser there WILL BE a trial….
(1) I was just as upset as anyone at the time Gerald Ford pardoned his predecessor, but like many others (including the Kennedy School) I have come to believe that he did the right thing. Nixon tried to regain respectability but his influence in partisan politics vanished.
Although I think it was the right decision to heal the nation after the Long National Nightmare of Watergate,
it certainly didn’t help Ford or the GOP in politics. They were slaughtered in the November 1974 elections and lost the subsequent presidential election by a margin so small (48.0% to ~50.5%) that something like the pardon could easily have tipped the balance against them.
(2) I will anticipate CG by noting that the party which connived at and smiled at (hugely successful) domestic terrorism was the Democratic Party in relation to the Ku Klux Klan. It took 100 years for our party to repudiate and suppress the Klan.
I thought your post was a bit elitist Dave. I don’t see how pardoning the ring leader but jailing the subordinates everpromotes healing – except among the most powerful.
Well if you want Jan 6 to happen again, then your recommendation that we should be soft on terrorism makes sense.
The comparison between this act of domestic terrorism and the Klan is hysterical. While the Klan held marches in DC and controlled Democratic law makers they never invaded the Capitol and tried to kill the Vice President and Speaker. That terrorist organization was also dismantled by the modern Democratic Party and a Justice Department run by Democrats.
Wilson, a favorite of the Klan, never stood on the White House lawn in a white sheet and fed the fire of a riot. Trump and his Republican enablers have been verbally been wearing them for fifty years now.
So the pardon of Nixon was a good thing? Bullshit! Yes it helped to beat Ford and the Republicans but it was a blow to the rule of law and allowed Nixon to rehabilitate himself even after we heard those racist and anti-Semitic tapes. Did he run the Republican Party like Trump is currently doing? No, but like Trump he never answered for his crimes. Nixon and Trump have so many similarities, it would be ashamed to add this too.
These false equivalencies are being pushed by people who should know better and they’re sad. There isn’t one person who worked on the Watergate Investigation that thinks the Nixon pardon was good for our political system, not one. This let’s “move on crap” is a one way street that flows right. Because Republicans never move on.
Five people died at the Capitol and that’s “in the rear window,” four people died in Benghazi and let’s hold multiple hearings and string up Hillary Clinton.
The purity that is demanded of the Democratic Party here by several of our friends is overlooked when it comes to the Republicans. But the fact that they are willing to excuse treason and violence because the Klan once held sway with a major party a century ago is both ridiculous and a reach.
This isn’t a topic of discussion in a class from 40 years ago. We are witnessing the take over of a major party by people who would be classified as domestic terrorists and Q conspiracy fans. The vote to certify the election is all you have to look at to see how far the Republicans have gone down sedition road. The fact that this is now being excused and dismissed is ridiculous.
But I am sure later today we will read about Maxine Waters or a letter I wrote 40 years ago.
Yes, while I enjoy history and find it an interesting topic,way too often here we get distracted by historical events and people that have no relation as to what is occurring today.
Indeed the two major parties have changed dramatically in the past fifty years or so as to be ,except for the names, barely recognizable from what they were then.
Z?
I have NO control over the crazies….
There will be a trial….
Trump will be acquitted ….
McConnell and McCarthy wanted Trump beat up politically AT FIRST….
THAT has been exstingushed….
The GOP lawmakers ARE sticking together ….
Trump isn’t President….
The bleeding has stopped…
I have no doubt that some GOPer’s KNOW they are giving Trump a pass…
But?
Again?
It’s about KEEPING THEIR JOBS…
Not even about Trump actually
I really don’t understand the headline here.
Murkoski and her small crew crying that they got duped…
Well I don’t know where “duped” comes in.
As I read it she was complaining about the rush to vote on Paul’s motion.
However, there’s no indication whatsoever, that they didn’t understand what they were voting on.
So how can anyone say they were duped?
So who was “duped?”
Murkowski say’s so…
Says there should have been counter argument presented…
Not important….
We KNEW Trump wasn’t gonna be convicted…
The basis of the reason seems like bull shot….
And this isn’t about Trump…
It’s about the next elections
Drop the last three words
That was confusing; ket me try again:
Jack, what can you tell us about your brother at the South Carolina bar, Butch Bowers, who is set to be the new head of dangerous criminal<ex-President Trump’s legal defense team?
I think Butch Bowers and Cynical Cid were the Mid-South Tag Team Champions for a brief period of time in the late ’70s.
Bowers is a well known attorney in S.C.
He was once head of the State Election Commission and has represented Several Republican politicians, including Nikki Haley and Henry McMaster in ethics scrapes.
Mostly he is known as a no nonsense type guy with little flair for publicity.Quite a change from Trumps previous attorneys.
NeverTrumper Bill Kristol comments,
“So far in 2021 Kevin McCarthy is more critical of Liz Cheney than Marjorie Taylor Green”
Do you finds that surprising? Cheney criticized a Republican. Green only threatened to kill Democrats.
Dors anyone think there would be a flood of Republican Senators voting to censure Trump?
I don’t. It would be the same 5 that voted to move on to an impeachment trial with maybe one or two others.
Whether due to love or fear the vast majority of elected Republicans will never vote to hold Trump accountable for anything.
They’d be more likely to literally suck his dick
I think *almost* all Republican Senators would vote for the Censure option.
I believe the House could have a similar vote.
If a Senate trial is held, I think there will be more than 5 Republican votes to convict, but probably not too many more than 5.
Again, I am for Impeachment, and was for that long before the Ukraine thing even happened, but I think all of us should prefer Trump face a trial under the jurisdiction of United States justice system itself, where the findings and punishment may be more significant than what would be a largely political and symbolic Senate vote.
The last Impeachment, Republicans were saying, “well he might have done it, but we should let the voters decide.” The voters did.
Now, many of the same people will be saying let the Justice Department and the Courts decide.
Maybe a couple more ;however that will open any of those ,besides the five who opposed Paul’s motion , to well deserved ridiculed.
“Let me see there Senator,you believe this whole thing’s unconstitutional,yet you’re voting to convict?
Yeah that makes sense!”
They are politicians, not Constitutional scholars.
Hell a college kid could understand that!
No trial would drive Pelosi ‘nuts’….
Schumer would get a beatdown i’d think…
And the media would go also go thru the roof…
Not a good look
We’ll see….
They would be seen as following Biden’s lead for the interest of the country.