I often repeat here that Senator Bernie Sanders is NOT a Democrat even though he runs with them…
There IS a undercurrent of resent met against him among some Democrats….
Hillary Clinton has brought it up…
Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) dismissed Hillary Clinton’s recent suggestion that his decision to not endorse her more quickly after the two battled for the Democratic nomination in 2016 ended up hurting her in the general election against Republican Donald Trump.
Trump ended up defeating Clinton in a huge political surprise.
“I’m sorry that Hillary Clinton is rerunning 2016,” Sanders, who is running for president again, said in a recent wide-ranging interview with Iowa Press.
“I could take out a letter from Hillary Clinton saying, ‘Thank you Bernie for working so hard to try and make me the president of the United States,’” Sanders added.
Clinton said last week in an interview with Howard Stern that Sanders could have endorsed her sooner in the 2016 race, adding that “there’s no doubt about it, he hurt me.”
She said she was “disappointed” with Sanders and she hopes “he doesn’t do it again to whoever gets the nomination.” ….
image…CNBC.Com
I haven’t read Hillary Clinton’s book, “What Happened” but the reviews I’ve seen said that in that book she blames everyone but herself for the result of the 2016 general election. The Buck Stopped Somewhere Else.
Her chief mistakes in my eyes seem to have been (1) curtailing active polling of the whole electorate in favour of “analytics” that proved misleading, and (2) running through money so fast (just as in 2008) that she forwent rallying an eager Democratic base in those first few weeks of solidarity after the convention in favour of going out of sight to beg money from rich donors at small, closed events around the county (a group of stockbrokers in New York, a bunch of Hollywood and Silicon Valley executives in California). [Not to mention (3) her disastrous handling — aided by James Comey — of her e-mail records, deleting 30,000 messages that she says were entirely personal without any way of proving it.]
Bernie Sanders did his best for the general election campaign, but he was sent to college campuses, and not to the working-class audiences he’d won over in the Blue Wall states around the Great Lakes.
¶ And Clinton misunderstands what a movement politician can do; Sanders’ base would not have stood for his early withdrawal from the race before contesting (as did Clinton & Obama in 2008) every state and territory. They would have given up on Sanders and turned sour on the Democratic presidential campaign before he could try to rally them again for the Democratic nominee.
¶ Almost all democratic socialists in the U.S. have worked since the 1950’s have worked within rather than outside the Democratic Party, so I among others wonder why James keeps harping on what is essentially a technicality. Sanders does not officially caucus with the Democrats (chiefly out of concern for the difficulties it might cause Democratic candidates in red & purple swing states), but he acts like a Democrat, walks like a Democrat and talks like a Democrat, even getting his share of committee assignments and chairmanships.
Keith did raise an entirely valid point: that Sanders’ third-party campaign might have denied the governorship of Vermont to Madeleine Kunin, who was no machine moderate, but very much part of the Movement herself.
But Sanders now seems to have reached a mutual understanding with the orthodox Democrats of Vermont to stand aside for candidates with the better chance of winning. The Democrats don’t oppose Bernie Sanders, and his allies don’t run against Rep. Peter Welch (D).
You haven’t read her book, but…..
It’s still her fault for not being inspiring…
Such utter bullshit, especially after the mountain of evidence that says otherwise.
I just love misogyny in the morning, now go back to commenting on Elizabeth Warren’s voice.
I didn’t say anywhere that Hillary Clinton lost because she wasn’t inspiring.
In fact in that first week after the convention, she gave some rip-roaring speeches that raised my hopes that she could rally all Democrats together no matter what their primary preference had been, as well as healing fresh wounds and reconciling with the supporters of Bernie Sanders and other primary candidates. But then she vanished out of public sight into small fund-raisers.
She also made some fundamental errors in polling, budgeting and handling the e-mail issue.
None of these involved Bernie Sanders’ alacrity to endorse her.
Dave, It was me – no you- who said that Hillary Clinton wasn’t inspiring. I still feel that way. People just didn’t want to hear her speak. She lost a close race so there were a bunch of reasons why she lost. All that was needed was a switch of maybe 50,000 votes or so.
I think Sanders could probably have endorsed her a little earlier (and maybe that might have made the difference) but Sanders provided probably more support to Hillary than almost any of the failed GOP candidates provided Trump.
I was responding to Dave’s comments Zreebs, I recall what you have written.
I will probably make a post out ur Hillary campaign readback DSD later on…
I have also knocked her 2016 campaign. effort as terrible….
And you would know this how James?
By looking at what she did and didn’t do in her campaign….
My feeling she came the election that way most of us did….
Trump was just a blowhard NYC Real Estate guy…
He, he,,,
Light weight….
She played to small crowds…
She , as DSD pointed out, DID NOT pay attention. to the warning signs in the lat 69 days….
She was unable to handle the email throw down …
She IS more than capable to BE President and would have run circles around the Trump Presisency…
But she seemed to covey a feeling of things where sewed up….
She won the popular vote by millions…
But lost…
i will include ur rebuttals to DSD in the post on this if u want to….
It would be also fair to say that Hillary carried her husband’s actions on her back….
70,000 Votes spread across just a few states ?
Once again, how would you know James? You still don’t get it.
Two eyes and a brain …..
Simple…..
Dave, you forget your condescending insults. You found Hillary uninspired and uninspiring, she disappointed you.
As a liberal I would expect you to be condescending about Hillary as you have been about Warren and Harris. But you should have at least read her book before you critiqued her “fundamental mistakes.
First, she acknowledged her mistakes, but for the lack of 70,000 votes she would have run a brilliant campaign.
Second, you totally ignore what she had up against her. The Russians spent $200 million dollars and hired over 2,000 internet troll to spread misinformation about Clinton – much of which came directly from Sanders (comments about how unqualified Hillary was). Then outside groups came in to support Stein. We were told by your fellow Socialists that “at least with Trump we will get our revolution sooner.” They were rooting for her to lose.
She got more votes than any other white candidate for President against 30 years of the same bullshit that is frequently written here. But let’s not forget about those fundamental mistakes.
She won the popular vote…
But?
DSD’s points are also true….
She ran a lousy campaign ….
I pointed out here that she seemed to NOT actually want to work FOR the job….
It DID seem that she, like the rest of us ASSUMED that American was NOT about what Donald Trump Was selling, but in hindsight?
The clues where there in the polling that people thought was wrong….
It wasn’t so much….
I was for her before Obama
But as people questioned me here ?
I found it hard to say what she was about ….
I have no doubt she would have been a good President….
But u have to win the race to get the job…
This time?
We won’t be fooled?
It’s about WHERE the vote comes from
How much does matter….
Hillary NOW knows That…
Stop reading some prejudices and stereotypes onto something I didn’t write in the first place.
I said Hillary Clinton (to my slight surprise) could be an effective and inspiring speaker; in fact she said exactly what should have been said and what was hoped for by both her own supporter and by supporters of her Democratic opponents — left and right. She just vanished after about a week into several weeks of closed fund-raisers.
I don’t think that Keith is a cultist, but he reacts viscerally to what he perceives as the slightest criticism of his heroines and heroes.
Much of what I wrote above was confirmed by two other books about the election: “Hacks” by Donna Brazile (whose perspective, of course, is open to correction, modification or challenge) and “Shattered: Inside Hillary Clinton’s Doomed Campaign” by two embedded Washington Post reporters (Amy Parnes and Jonathan Allen) who would have had no scores of their own to settle. By the time Hillary Clinton’s expensive hardback (which I had planned to read) finally came out, I’d lost my appetite for the whole depressing history. I did scan what she said about Russian and Wikileaks interference in the bookstore.
The Russians of course did have something to contribute to Donald Trump’s victory, but they built upon Hillary Clinton’s carelessness with e-mails and those 30,000 deleted messages that she said were personal without any way to prove it. James Comey certainly didn’t help.
Ur up DSD….
Thanks….
Actually you did write how disappointed you were in Hillary and how uninspiring she was.
I called you on it at the time and was ridiculed because I pointed out how qualified she was to be President.
Both she and Bill disappointed you Dave. He only brought seven million people out of poverty, created 25 million new jobs, and balanced the budget. That clearly wasn’t good enough for you.
And now we have a National emergency and our Democracy is under attack, and it is still the woman’s fault. You can’t even bring yourself to admit the world would be a better place if she had actually won. Nope, “she made fatal errors.”
Neither you or our friend James have even read her book, but you’re sure she never took responsibility. What bullshit.
Try reading the Mueller Report.
I wasn’t even a Hillary person, I was always for Obama back in 2008 while James was certain Hillary would win (he still doesn’t know how this works). But what I can recognize is the better candidate and I don’t assign different rules for men and women. Hillary treated Bernie with kit gloves because she knew she needed his supporters, he repaid her with withholding his endorsement when it was apparent in April he couldn’t win the nomination and giving Russian bots lots of material to work with for the fall. But poor Bernie.
My reaction to your absurd bullshit about Hillary’s campaign isn’t that she didn’t make mistakes, it’s your insistence on blaming the woman. And, it isn’t just Hillary, it’s a pattern.
Things that would never be mentioned about a male candidate become sticking points with a woman. You don’t like Warren’s voice and Kamala is mean. Really. What is your opinion of Mayor Pete’s hair style?
I react viscerally to misogyny Dave. I react to viscerally when the government is falling apart and people are still blaming a woman when they should blame themselves.
I haven’t posted much here because I would rather do than talk, but I find the continued fixation with the failure of an accomplished woman as opposed to a pussy grabbing demagogue very informative.
Keep nitpicking and you’ll pick your way to four more years of Trump.
So, what’s your opinion of Amy Dave?
Oh, by the way, Tulsi is refusing to appear at the next debate to protest the whole debate process. Green Party here she comes, Vlad will be so happy.
Who was it that warned us?? McCarthy? Right?
Yes. Of course to win the general election you have to be careful about what you say about your primary opponents. And that works both ways. If anything, I felt that Bernie probably was too easy on Hillary during the campaign.
Bernie Sanders said early on during the campaign that he wouldn’t be making emails an issue – this while the press was hounding Hillary over her emails. And he could easily have joined in to weaken her but he didn’t. Sanders ultimately campaigned hard for Hillary – something neither Hillary nor you ever gave him credit for. While Trump was on the news attending rallies almost every day, Hillary wasn’t, depending on surrogates like Bernie.
I think most progressives (such as Dave and me) genuinely want to be objective. We see the country falling apart under Trump, and we point it out when we can. But if we are silent when a Democrat does something wrong, then we lose all credibility in what we say.
So you won’t get very far in blaming Democrats who ultimately voted for Hillary for her loss. The last thing we want to be like is Republicans who choose to look the other way when their side does something wrong.
With regard to Gabbard and the Green Party. that is an interesting possibility in her running for the nomination. She will have to make a decision soon. The Green Party is more progressive on social issues than Gabbard, and she will have a challenge in justifying her past anti-gay and pro-life positions, there won’t be much Green sympathy for her support for politicians like Modi. And she will have a tough time with some sore loser laws. So it is not like the Green Party nomination is hers for the asking. But I suppose it is still a possibility.
She’s made her decision Zreebs, Tulsi that is, she’s refusing to participate in the next debate. Something I suspect Trump will do next year, because the Democratic Party has been unfair to her. Where have we heard that before?
There are only two candidates who get majority favorable news coverage from Russian State media – Trump and Tulsi.
Vlad is about to do it again. He has his useful idiot and the Greens need a candidate. And, Liberals who are fond of nitpicking mainstream Democratic candidates, will be drawn to a candidate who will talk about ending foreign engagements.
While the man who is on track to destroy our Democracy as we know it will benefit. Who was it that warned us about that?
But, by all means, let’s all spend hours talking about a book we haven’t read, and Monday morning quarterbacking.
The Manchurian President is being debriefed in the White House by the Russian Foreign Minister AGAIN….
The White House is being coy about this….