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Barack Obama warns those running in his party not to make a hard left turn….Open Thread for 11/16/19

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Despite the media love affair with progressive Democrats?

The actual Democratic Party and the General Voter is more in the center…

Bernie Sanders did Not prevail over Hillary Clinton, who won the popular vote over Trump by millions….

BOTH Sanders and Elizabeth Warren have trailed  Joe Biden from the start….

Pete Buttigieg is in the running in Iowa….

Why all this?

Moderate Democrats…

The last American Democratic President is issuing a warning about ‘dream promises  that will never see the light of day and will NOT play well in a general election where the house’s of Congress and the Presidency are at stake….

Obama’s comments can be seen as DIRECT rebuttals to candidates Sanders and Warren, who,  in fact , DO want to throw out the present systems and start anew with  ‘progressive’ government based ways of doing things based on increased taxes….

Speaking before a room of wealthy liberal donors, Mr. Obama urged Democrats to remember the long, combative slog of his primary campaign against Hillary Clinton in 2008, arguing that the 16 month battle ultimately made him a stronger general election candidate.

“For those who get stressed about robust primaries, I just have to remind you I had a very robust primary,” he told the group of several hundred donors and organizational leaders in Washington. “I’m confident that at the end of the process we will have a candidate that has been tested.”

Yet, he also raised concerns about some of the liberal ideas being promoted by some candidates, citing health care and immigration as issues where the proposals may have gone further than public opinion.

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  2. Trump pardons Army officers, restores Navy SEAL’s rank in war crimes cases
    Idrees Ali

    WASHINGTON (Reuters) – U.S. President Donald Trump on Friday pardoned two Army officers accused of war crimes in Afghanistan and restored the rank of a Navy SEAL platoon commander who was demoted for actions in Iraq, a move critics have said would undermine military justice and send a message that battlefield atrocities will be tolerated.

    The White House said in a statement Trump granted full pardons to First Lieutenant Clint Lorance and Major Mathew Golsteyn, and ordered that the rank Edward Gallagher held before he was convicted in a military trial this year be restored.

    “For more than two hundred years, presidents have used their authority to offer second chances to deserving individuals, including those in uniform who have served our country. These actions are in keeping with this long history,” the statement said.

    A Pentagon spokesperson said the Department of Defense has confidence in the military justice system.

    “The President is part of the military justice system as the Commander-in-Chief and has the authority to weigh in on matters of this nature,” the spokesperson said.

    In recent weeks, Pentagon officials had spoken with Trump about the cases, provided facts and emphasized the due process built into the military justice system.

    In 2013, prosecutors accused Lorance of illegally ordering the fatal shootings of two men on motorcycles while on patrol in Afghanistan’s Kandahar province. He was found guilty of two counts of murder.

    Last year, Golsteyn, an Army Green Beret, was charged with murdering an Afghan man during a 2010 deployment to Afghanistan.

    Gallagher, a decorated SEAL team platoon leader, was accused of committing various war crimes while deployed in Iraq in 2017.

    In July, a military jury acquitted him of murdering a captured Islamic State fighter by stabbing the wounded prisoner in the neck, but it convicted him of illegally posing with the detainee’s corpse. That had led to his rank being reduced….

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-warcrimes-pardon/trump-pardons-army-officers-restores-navy-seals-rank-in-war-crimes-cases-idUSKBN1XP2G4

    • Donald gives the military finger AGAIN…..

      Remember?

      On SEVERAL OCCASIONS. he has urged government workers to break the law….

      His buddies have charged for doing so…

      He WAS elected to this ….

      His supporters stand behind him for this…

    • I’ve been saying the same thing since the 2016 elections….

      The party needs to be in the center and a bit left….

      • James,

        What do you support that is “a bit left”? You are critical about gun safety measures, significant military cuts, healthcare for all people, impeachment efforts and any significant environmental initiatives. You consistently use conservative talking points, and other than Trump, you reserve your strongest hatred toward people on the left, and you frequently distort if not lie what they say.

        You are opposed to a rich person being president, but that particular position is more Communist than a bit left. I am not aware of any liberals who share that particular view.

        • NO….

          I’m FOR MORE gun control measures

          FOR…Smart Military cuts…

          FOR…Better healthcare coverage for MORE people with choices…

          FOR…Removing an inept and crooked President

          FOR…Clean air and water for me and grandchildren

          AGAINST…The unreasonable limited immigration polices from Trump…

          I do NOT hate progressives…I DO think they are oversold by the American media…America is NOT a left leaning country despite the media…

          I DO feel that Warren and Sanders big ‘DREAMS’ of turning to MORE government control of things from now in a capitalist country is a political impossibitly…

          Your problem is MY pragmatism ….

          I am too old to believe bull shit from even Democrats….

          I have spent countless hours an key stokes against the Republican bull shit and ‘hate’….

          I AM a Democratic moderate…

          I have and DO put my money where my mouth is….

          I am glad and proud that Barack Obama agree’s with me…

          • You probably do see yourself as problematic. But really You just want to focus on the next election and hope that if Democrats don’t do that much, then they will be re-elected. I think it is a strategy for sure defeat.

            And there is nothing liberal with what you just said. It could easily have been from CG, and he is not a liberal either.

            I’m a Little offended that you would compare your views to Obama . Obama is careful with the words he uses and he is a good person. You will lie and distort to promote hatred toward two of the top four Democratic candidates. Obama would never sound like you. Never – and deep down you know it..

              • I’m not one to read a whole lot into offyear elections.

                The turnout is usually lower and often local issues take on outsized importance.

                However, it is sort of humorous that Trump makes much ballyhooed appearances for Republican gubernatorial candidates in both Kentucky and Louisiana and they both lose.

                Lessons?None really ,but it was significant in Louisiana that a well organized GOTV effort among Blacks resulted in a huge increase in early voters.Maybe Democrats nationally should pay attention to that.

          • James is “for” all these things “in theory.”

            It’s just when one gets to specifics and the politics of implementation that he falls away ,making such bold statements as the above a mishmash of irrelevancies.

            We all are familiar with his “Americans love their guns “manta (so?) and his howling for Democrats to “avoid” the issue .So who gives a damn about his statement above that he is “for” gun control?

            And so if goes for the rest of his “beliefs.”

            Look James ,maybe you do “believe” all of the above;however, when you belittle any proposals to do anything about them , exhibit political cowardice in trying to even take baby steps toward fulfilling that which you claim to “believe “ in and even take some apparent delight in criticizing those who,at least, are trying even haphazardly in many cases ,getting the conversation going about them?

            Then dont be surprised when observant posters find your supposed “Fors” with a high degree of skepticism.

              • I just want Democrats to WIN…..

                THEN they start to change some things….

                ‘Ya gotta crawl before ya walk’…

                Remember THAT guys….

                2016 – 2018 when Democrats where sucking wind is FRESH in my mind….

                  • On the contrary, “baby steps” refers to beginning a long process which will culminate in an objective.

                    In other words, exactly how I used it in my post.

                    Another example(if any was needed) of how you continually misstate meanings to justify your original post which, as I have clearly shown was,at best, misleading and ,at worst?

                    An out and out falsehood.

  4. I also am concerned that Sanders, Warren, Harris and Castro have made themselves less electable (but not unelectable) in the general election. And electability will be a factor in how I vote in the primary.

    I think that the Democrats have to recognize that ObamaCare, while it was a big improvement in what it replaced, is not the long term solution. At the same time, the transition to a less expensive system that covers everyone doesn’t have enough public support at this time. So, ironically, it is wise that we move slowly – even though it is urgent. Warren’s transition plan was a step in the right direction.

    • Democrats need to make ‘doable’ adjustments right now…

      Moves to single payer are just NOT feasible politically now…

  5. Nate Silver
    @NateSilver538
    …and of the 55% who say they’re liberal, at least half of them would say they’re “somewhat liberal” rather than “very liberal”. So you have a distribution something like:

    25% very liberal
    30% somewhat liberal
    40% moderate
    5% conservative

    twitter…

  6. James, What idiot would vote for a Democratic candidate whose only goal is to win?

    Also, given all of your criticism of Trump, not just for pursuing Republican objectives, but for corruption and undermining the constitution, you would think it should be an easy decision for you to endorse all of the top Democrats against Trump. To the best I can recall, the only Democrat you are willing to commit voting for against Trump is Biden. So you are more like an independent in that regard. Not to worry, you consider Sanders an independent too!

    As the wealth and income distribution gets more skewed, and the environment continues to count to Doomsday sometime in the future (but not in our lifetime) because of our unwillingness to take actions, it follows that the need to take decisive action will be even stronger in four years than it is now. Therefore, I expect that most Democrats will be even more progressive in four years than they are today. And that probably includes me.

      • Yes. A candidate whose only goal is to win has no soul and shouldn’t be in office. These candidates deserve no trust

        Same thing for someone who lies and distorts, promotes hatred, cheats on their taxes and refused to have lunch with me.

  7. the Muncie IN mayor was arrested by the FBI on corruption charges. And he should never have been elected either.

  8. While Pete Buttigieg appears to be rising nationally, he still is lagging in support among Black voters .

    In a poll released today in S.C., he polled at less than 1% among Black voters.

    Perhaps good showings in Iowa and NH would change this for the better( couldn’t get any worse) ,but without significant improvements in these numbers ,his campaign has real problems.

    No one is going to win the Democratic nomination with numbers like that .

      • For Ben Carson fans here….

        Housing and Urban Development Secretary Ben Carson accused House Financial Services Chairwoman Maxine Waters (D-Calif.) of hypocrisy on homelessness today in a blistering letter charging her with lacking “basic manners.”…

        More…

            • Illustrative day for some. Clearly there are some people in this country who are quite triggered by the prospect a Jew wearing the uniform of the United States Army.

                    • Vox
                      @voxdotcom

                      “It’s Lieutenant Colonel Vindman”: Nunes’s effort to out whistleblower during the #ImpeachmentHearing is met with an epic clap-back..

                      …

                      Nunes’s line of questioning illustrated how Republicans wanted to talk about anything but Trump’s conduct….

                      More…

                    • Lt. Col. Alexander Vindman discussed his family’s decision to immigrate to the U.S. from Ukraine during his opening statement in Tuesday’s impeachment hearing.

                      What he’s saying: Vindman told his father that his testimony is “proof that [he] made the right decision 40 years ago to leave the Soviet Union … in search of a better life for our family.”

                      He faced unsubstantiated cable news attacks after his closed-door testimony that questioned his loyalty to the U.S. because he was born in Ukraine….

                      More…

                    • Been busy today and only had the chance to read some of the bullet headlines.

                      It’s a pathetic day in the history of the Republican Party. I can imagine who might be rolling over in their graves that elected officials of one party have come to this. They know that Trump cannot be defended on the facts, so they attack anyone who dares to present them.

                      I really wish I knew how to get different license plates than the ones I have had since I was 17.

                      But as Lt. Col Vidman said, thank G-d his father took his family out of Russia and brought them to the United States where he does have the freedom to contradict a President. Doing so in Putin’s Russia would have him surely killed.

  9. After Chick Fil A revealed that it was ending donations to two groups which specifically condemn homosexual behavior,several Republicans condemned them for it.

    Former Governor Mike Huckabee of Arkansas ,a rabid Trump supporter blasted the move as did Republican author Dinesh D Souza.

    Texas Gov. Greg Abbot indicated in a tweet that due to Chick Fil As action he would be eating at some bar b que joint.

    • Knowing I’d never run into assholes like Mike Huckabee would only encourage me to eat at someplace he boycotted.

      • He should go to Popeyes.

        My view- people who boycotted Chick Fil A for political reasons in 2012 were dumb and so are the people doing the same thing in 2019.

  10. Debate details:

    https://www.businessinsider.com/november-democratic-debate-whos-debating-what-time-how-to-watch-2019-10

    ¶ Here’s who will be onstage for the November Democratic debate hosted by MSNBC and the Washington Post, what time it’ll start, and how to watch
    Ten 2020 Democratic presidential candidates have qualified for the fifth Democratic primary debate, which MSNBC and the Washington Post will co-host on November 20, 2019.
    In order to qualify for the November debate, candidates need both 165,000 individual donors and to earn either 3% in four DNC-approved national polls or 5% in two approved early-state polls.
    The debate will be moderated by NBC correspondent and host Andrea Mitchell, MSNBC anchor Rachel Maddow, NBC News White House correspondent Kristen Welker, and Washington Post White House reporter Ashley Parker.
    The debate will be hosted at Tyler Perry Studios in Atlanta, Georgia and will run from 9 PM to 11 PM ET.

    Who will be on stage:
    Here’s how the candidates will be ordered on the stage from left to right:

    Sen. Cory Booker of New Jersey
    Rep. Tulsi Gabbard of Hawaii
    Sen. Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota
    Mayor Pete Buttigieg of South Bend, Indiana
    Sen. Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts
    Former Vice President Joe Biden
    Sen. Bernie Sanders of Vermont
    Sen. Kamala Harris of California
    Businessman Andrew Yang
    Businessman Tom Steyer

    Veteran NBC correspondent and host Andrea Mitchell, MSNBC anchor Rachel Maddow, NBC News White House correspondent Kristen Welker, and Washington Post White House reporter Ashley Parker will moderate the debate.

    • What time the debate will start and how to watch:
      The debate will be hosted at Tyler Perry Studios in Atlanta, Georgia and will run from 9 PM to 11 PM ET.

      In addition to airing live on MSNBC, the debate will be live-streamed on MSNBC.com, washingtonpost.com, and can be viewed all NBC and Washington Post iOS, Android, Roku, Apple, and Chromecast apps.

          • Interesting polls….

            New York Democratic Presidential Primary Siena Biden 24, Warren 14, Sanders 13, Buttigieg 5, Harris 3, Yang 2, Booker 2, Gabbard 1, Klobuchar 1, Bennet 1, Castro 1 Biden +10

            New Hampshire Democratic Presidential Primary St. Anselm Warren 15, Biden 15, Buttigieg 25, Sanders 9, Klobuchar 6, Steyer 5, Gabbard 3, Yang 2, Booker 3, Harris 1, Bennet, Castro, Sestak Buttigieg +10

            RCP….

  12. Just seems odd that someone would go through the drudgery of three years of law school, not to mention the substantial monetary investment, and then not be admitted to the Bar.

    A little odd….then again Jordan himself is very odd.

      • Yes ,I know a lot of lawyers who never practice ,but they all took and passed the Bar exam.

        Sort of a rite of passage.

        Just odd Jordan never did.

    • My brother in law’s father completed law school and never practiced law.

      My girlfriend also finished law school and never took the bar exam.

      Then again I probably run around with some odd folks lol.

      Hell I spent more time getting my education degree than I spent teaching!

      • These days, I only use my Political Science degree on the internet (where everyone is typically angry at me…..)

        • Ken Jeong is a medical doctor, but decided instead to become a stand-up comedian/actor and is now the worst judge on “The Masked Singer.” (which I think we should have threads about.)

          Comedian Jackie Mason was actually a Rabbi.

    • I was thirteen years old when Kennedy was killed.

      In the Eighth grade, (at a totally segregated school) , I still remember almost everything I did that day.

      Gee, 56 years ago.

      Where has the time gone?

  15. Roll Call

    The Senate cleared a monthlong spending bill Thursday, sending it to President Donald Trump’s desk hours before government funding was set to expire at midnight. Read More…

  17. Politico

    Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg was admitted to the hospital Friday night after experiencing “chills and a fever”

  18. Bloomberg has officially entered the race – and will be spending $37m in television advertisements in the next two weeks.

      • Polling sidebar is updated…

        Can anyone guess about a poll coming lated on about a change with the Democrats?

        • Update…

          Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg was discharged from the hospital on Sunday, two days after she was admitted for experiencing chills and fever….

          More…

            • Nate Silver
              @NateSilver538
              If you read press coverage of the Democratic campaign, you’d get no sense at all that Democratic voters are quite happy with their field, even though those numbers are as high as they’ve ever been.

              …

              Nate Silver
              @NateSilver538
              It really reflects the degree to which elites rather than voters still drive coverage, especially in the most influential publications. Democratic voters mostly think Biden, Warren and Bernie are all pretty great, and they like what they see of Buttigieg, Harris and others also.

              • Ezra Klein
                @ezraklein
                That three different New York mayors have played or are playing a role in 2020 and the President is a creature of the New York gossip pages really shows how much the media’s New York-centrism ends up shaping American politics

  19. From Politicalwire

    “I very much prefer Biden or Buttigieg or Bloomberg or Klobuchar to Warren. But the idea that one term of Warren would pose anything like the threat of a second term for Trump to the basic norms and institutions of our liberal democracy, including to free markets, is laughable.”

    — Bill Kristol, on Twitter.

    Wow, I agree with Bill Kristol.

    Sounds like he won’t be wasting his vote.

  20. Never said any such thing.

    Why do you continue to lie about what I say?

    I’ve said that Republicans Overwhelmingly support Trump.Thats a factual statement.

    As I’ve said before?You are very Trumplike in many of your posts here…

    Blatant lies ,weird theories with no basis in fact, convoluted statements that are frequently indecipherable,and countering posts you disagree with by making up a counter that has no relationship to the original statement.

  21. Comments like Kristol’s make me think the third party vote will be significantly less next year than it was in 2016.

    Evan McMullin has similarly painted a stark picture of what a second Trump term would mean to our Democracy.

    So who would even run–much less vote for–a “pox on both their houses” campaign?

    • Most of us are counting on Trump losing the popular vote by a larger margin then the last time….

        • Former President Barack Obama once warned he would intervene to stop Sen. Bernie Sanders, I-Vt., from winning the Democratic presidential nomination, according to a new report that sheds light on Obama’s personal views of the jam-packed primary field with no clear front-runner…..

          Fox….

              • I have no reason to believe at this point that Obama will vote for Biden in the primary.Obama is a pragmatic politician. Hope I am wrong, but I don’t believe Biden will be more popular a year from today than he is today.

                • I get the impression Obama IS trying to cancel out ANY advantage Warren/Sanders may have with Democratic voters…

                  I actually do NOT think this is a hard sell…

                  • I am in full agreement with the Democratic ex-President that moderation, NOT change the world , is the path to the White House for Democrats in 2021…

                    • “I would like to think there’s a coalition of the decent out there who are just horrified by watching Donald Trump, by watching what he’s doing, but also what he’s doing to us. I would love to see the emergence of a coalition that would set aside ideological differences, at least temporarily, to deal with the current emergency.”

                      — Conservative commentator Charlie Sykes, quoted by The Progressive….

                      Politicalwire…

                    • Sykes needs to take his fellow NeverTrumper Bill Kristols advice.

                      Just support the Democratic candidate whomever that might turn out to be.

                      I’m not even sure what exactly he means by a “coalition.”

                    • Former Republican conservative author Max Boot says the Republican Party needs to be “destroyed.”

                    • Sykes used to have a radio show in Milwaukee.

                      Boot is an author and used to have a column in the WallStreet Journal I believe.

  22. Interesting that we have stories about Republicans Kristol proclaiming his support for whoever the Democratic nominee may be (even if he must hold his nose) and Boot saying the party must be destroyed.

    And CG nowhere to be found.

    • Hes lurking.

      Probably, isn’t commenting after his remarks over the weekend in which he essentially announced he was checking out because I was “baiting” him.

  23. It was weird.

    Zreebs and I made some mildly critical comments (we have made worse) and he showed up claiming that I said things simply to get a”rise”out of him and then said something that he could find better things elsewhere or something like that.

    It was funny because I was simply repeating thingsc I had said before.

    CG always gives as good as he takes ,so I have no idea what set him off.Maybe he’s just finally realizing that no matter what he says or implies the Republicans are not going to desert Trump?

    • True, Republicans aren’t deserting Trump and the “never Trumpers” are seeing the futility of trying to run a third part and are increasingly quitting the GOP and coming to terms that they need to vote for the Democratic nominee next year.

      A bridge that is just too far for him.

        • CNN Breaking News

          William Ruckelshaus, a key figure in the Watergate scandal and the first head of the Environmental Protection Agency, has died cnn.it/34rBv4V

          • I remember Ruckelshaus was floated as a possible VP for GHW Bush in 1988. That ticket would have been the nerdiest I’m history.

            Good guy. RIP

  24. On a lighter note Trump tweeted an image of his head on Rocky Balboa’s body. The body image was from the poster of Rocky III. Of course he wouldn’t have picked the one where Rocky actually fought the Russians.

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