Here we go AGAIN….
I’m reading in for today’s posts and I have TONS of media stories on why Donald Trump should be impeached….
(The Ukraine talks this time…There is long list behind this…There will be more…)
The media gets a ‘woody’ on this subject….
They’ve been trying to push House Speaker Pelosi and House Judiciary Chair Nadler into it without success…
Democrats in House in safe district are gung-ho for it…
BUT?
The Republicans have a MAJORITY in the US Senate that isn’t indicating anything but a ‘NO” on actually convicting the President…
If there was House vote?
Democrat’s in Trump districts might NOT vote for impeachment either….
Then there is history ….
Bill Clinton was impeached, which just means ‘charged’ NOT CONVICTED or REMOVED from office, and went on to have his polling numbers jump up afterwards !
The leader of the Democrats in Congress is Nancy Pelosi…
She knows what I have just listed…
She has done well by getting a majority in the House last year ….
She has ,in my opinion, read the tea leafs about Trump and come to the conclusion that impeachment, which would make the media and safe Democrats happy along with others pissed about a rouge President, COULD…. just be the thing that gives Trump the ability to come out bruised politically but with a second term….
Politico points out that even with the above?
Donald Trump IS scared of a possible impeachment trial and has quietly, under the radar. mounted a YUGE effort against it…
Me?
I’m with Pelosi…
The best way to get rid of Trump is for Democrats to keep dancing with the possibility…
Let Trump keep digging himself deeper in political trouble and GET OUT THE VOTE that will capture the state’s needed for a popular , but MORE important Electoral College WIN next November….
image…Slate.Com
New Open Thread HERE….
AOC is saying that the “real scandal” now is that Congressional Democrats refuse to do their duty.
She pretty much has a point.
Our system basically has it where both parties are supposed to police each other. It looks like a crime happened. He pretty much admitted it, though he claims it is not a crime. Republicans are not going to “snitch” on one of their own as long as the “police” are willing looking the other way. This is no different than the streets.
If Trump actually shot someone on Fifth Avenue, would Democrats finally stop acting afraid?
Im fine with impeaching Trump.
But when it fails because of complicit Republicans I will then do the one thing that will ACTUALLY remove Trump and Pence and the whole criminal cabal from the White House–vote fot the Democratic Presidential nominee.
What will you do then CG?
You can do that, as you would otherwise, and I can vote for the candidate that clears my conscience. It wouldn’t be Trump.
Who? A write in for Dick Cheney?
Either someone actively seeking votes for President or a conservative who refused to support Donald Trump in 2016 and 2020.
GOP Presidential candidate Bill Weld is going further than me at this point by saying that Trump committed treason and is making reference to the death penalty.
That has to be tougher than any of the Democrats running for President,right?
He also won’t face the voters in a general election. Nor will he in a GOP primary. I like the guy but he’s a non entity as long as the Republican Party is all in for Trump.
Some states will have primaries. He and the others are still doing the right thing by speaking out and Democrats should applaud them for doing so and hope they continue doing so.
Democrats who are in the government and who of course control the House need to actually do their jobs too.
Yrs they are doing tbe right thing. But knowing full well you won’t actually be tasked with being the person to take down Donald Trump (that will be the Democratic nominee you won’t vote for) gives you rhe freedom to “go there”.
Alaska has also cancelled their GOP primary…
The way it’;s going the GOP 3 couldn’t beat Trump with enough delegates available to vote…
Yea CG….
IMPEACH!
Will this be the cry of the Trump re-election campaign?
If they did what it looked like they did, they don’t want to deal with impeachment (Unless Trump is looking to take a dive on purpose.)
I cannot understand why Democrats do not think this would not work to their benefit, especially if Trump is acquitted.
If there is clear evidence of a crime having been committed and cannot point to Trump using foreign aid money to get a country to falsely smear Joe Biden and his family (after all they’ve been through), in order to help his reelection, and the American people blame the Democrats for that? Well, then for one thing, Joe Biden wasn’t nearly as strong of a candidate as many claimed.
Because he would be able to say they have tried to get me TWICE and I ‘beat the rap…TWICE!’
That while he would CONTINUE his term in office…
laughing at Democrats and breathing a sigh of relief …
I’m writing this but you KNOW this CG, Right?
The American people are going to vote for him, even if they think he is guilty, simply because he “got off?”
You have quite a dystopian view of society.
It is a far bigger political risk for Democrats to do nothing, and look like they stand for nothing. That will cause people who might otherwise want to vote out Trump to stay home or look for other options.
People know what Democrats ‘stand for’
Pelosi makes THAT clear as does Biden and Warren
Sanders ins’t a Democrat…
I don’t think they do, and most people clearly associate Bernie Sanders with the Democrats, for better or worse.
What is their slogan?
“You can trust us to do the right thing unless it might make us look bad, in that case, nevermind!”
So when are any Republicans of note going to support impeachment?
Everyone is saying they need to see the facts and *if* it happened. Democrats have to lead in demanding we see what happened.
Even before this, there were over 218 votes in the House for impeachment.
So if the Democrats step up and go full bore in impeaxhment will that earn the Democratic nominee your vote next year?
No, but by the same token, I see virtually nobody who was considering voting Democrat, changing their mind and not voting for them because they impeached.
I mean, you guys rammed through Obamacare, attempting to use virtually any means necessary, without regard to the dozens of seats that it would cost because it was so unpopular, but are scared on impeachment, after this latest infraction, where the only people who will be pissed at Democrats for doing it, are already not going to vote for you…
Is there perhaps the fear that the facts would be so overwhelming, and public opinion turn so much on Trump, that he would be gone, that you don’t want to run against Pence instead?
No that’s what of no concern.
There is zero chance that more than a handful of Republicans in the Senate would vote to remove Trump even if the facts showed him to be Guilty.
Th9s whole “Democrars are responsible for Trump still beibg in power” shtick is getting old. No one buys it.
Lindsay Graham says Trump has done nothing wrong.
Likely the position of almost the entire Senate Republican Caucus
They are responsible for not impeaching him since they control the House. Havent said anything other than that.
Then that can be used against Republican Senate candidates in 2020.
How can they admit that Trump deserves to be removed from office,knowing that his cult followers would then abandon the Republicans ,not for the Democrats of course, but just not voting.
Republican Senators get it and will vote accordingly.
Mitt Romney had a statement that has the Trump backers pissed off of course.
What I saw Graham say is that he “wants to see the facts” and “if this happened..””
Well, that’s why we need to see them. Will the Democrats demand it or will they look the other way as a cover up occurs?
Give Lindsey what he wants and put the pressure on him.
This afternoon he says that Trump did nothing wrong.
Why do we need an impeachment proceeding?
Why don’t all these “concerned” Republicans gets t the White House and demand Trump release tye transcript of the conversation?
If the facts exist as we think they might and are presented to the public, this seems a whole lot easier to understand than the Russian thing. And it points to a pattern of behavior with Trump.
If that is the tipping point for the public, it would be clear in the polls and Republicans will then act out of survival and turn on Trump. I can guarantee that there are Republican officeholders privately hoping this happens and they have the excuse to do it.
Now, if the public simply doesn’t care or they think this is politics as usual that Trump is engaging in, that is very sad for the future of the Republic. It would speak very badly for all of us who want honest government, but especially to Democrats who can’t even make this simple case with effect.
Still, even if an impeachment vote in the Senate is lopsided, I cannot see how it would help Trump in 2020 with those who are already opposed to him or on the fence. Those who will rally to him because of it are already with him.
On the other hand, if Democrats do not listen to their base, in this case, they run the risk of demoralization.
If Democrats aren’;t going to push this, it makes sense that Republicans won’t.
This is literally the responsibility of the opposition party to police these things, That is how you get the other side to turn on each other and become “snitches.”
Since you are familiar with criminal prosecution, you know how this works outside of politics too.
I am reading that Graham went on a radio station today and said Trump should be forthcoming and release the transcripts. He also said he believes Trump will do this.
So, if Trump does not, Democrats have to stress that he is covering something up. That naturally would put Graham in an awkward place if he tries to backtrack.
How does it put him in an awkward position?
Trump lies daily and Graham and other Republicans have no problem overlooking it.
Graham has already called for an “investigation “ of Bidens son.
If Trump refuses to release the transcript Graham will excuse it and if he does Graham will release a legalistic explanation of why he did nothing wrong.Hes already said that ,although presumably he hasn’t seen the transcript.
So, it seems as if you are saying that Graham will overlook the contradiction (unknown) and thus Democrats should to.
What exactly are you folks afraid of with this?
Spell it out.
You seem to be under the impression that exposure of corruption would make Trump more powerful.
Why?
Donald Trump HAS shown the naked power of a President….
And he is upfront in pimping the American taxpayer…
His ace card IS Mitch McConnell and the US Senate…
It seems Trump has once again insulted Marvelous Mitt Romney. When will Romney move past his “Susan Collins like concern” and call for impeachment?
Or better yet, pull on his sacred underwear and challenge Trump for the nomination?
Well at least Romney said something. With that said, Utah is a different state than most red states. I’m fact, it had been my experience that most Mormons make an effort to be good people. While I disagree with Mormons on several issues (including some moral issues), I don’t think they are evil in any way. They are much less forgiving for sexual assaults and obvious corruption. So Romney cAn criticize Trump without being hurt politically. He therefore has a unique opportunity to take a leadership role in the anti-Trump movement if he so chooses. Obviously, I hope he does.
DNC raising the bar for the November debate to 3% in 4 polls
So if we are to believe CG there are many many elected Republicans just waiting to come out and oppose Trump publicly.
But they need the go ahead from Democrats to suddenly not care about the GOP base or Trump’s tweets.
Makes sense!
They need to see the polls change. That’s what I said.
But if Democrats are going to be complicit with a Trump cover-up and just focus on Brett Kavanaugh in the 1980s for instance, that’s not going to happen.
As long as Trumps approvals among Republican voters remains high?
Elected RepublicanS will at best remain silent,at worst they will vigorously support The LEADER.
Which is why I tild CG he should go back to his GOP meetings and convince Republican rank and file that they need to impeach Trump.
But he’d rather come on here and yell at us damn libruls about how Democrats are the ones REALLY keeping Trump in office.
Yeah it’s his receational activity.
Last week he conceded that his attempt to do so would be met with hostility.
He’s in a weird position, essentially conceding that Republicans are moral cowards and hoping the Democrats can buck them up ,make them do the right thing, so he can get back to active Democratic bashing again.
There’s a degree of amusement to the whole exercise really.
I can “bash” the Democrats on their position on the issues all I want and will continue to do so. This is not really an “issue” thing though. This is a “Constitution/will our country survive as it was intended” thing.
What *exactly* are you guys afraid of? Spell it out.
As you’ve said…
Right is right and wrong is wrong.
Just tell your party to do the “ right” thing and get rid of Trump.
Ah but there’s that little problem that your party has become his party.
Too bad,
My local party never even mentions Trump as far as I know. (still on the email list.)
They are focused on very local stuff and the memo need got down to them to take down the old GWB/McCain/Romney stuff on the walls. There is no way that the Trump overlords could overlook that.
If I actually had a Republican Congressman or Senator, I would let my thoughts be known, but alas…
If the Cook County Republican Party came out for Trump’s impeachment it would be noteworthy news.
More likely to come out for Joe Maddon’s impeachment : (
They don’t have a vote.
My Congressman (a Democrat) does and he is for impeachment. So is every other Democrat from anywhere close to where I live who serves in the U.S. House. They will probably eventually succeed in getting Pelosi to budge.
I think maybe I will go to the local Democrat meeting and tell them I am a Republican for impeachment. I have quasi-relatives who are involved in that party that will vouch for me.
They will probably alert the media and I can get in the paper or something. I don’t think anyone here actually goes to Democrat meetings, at least not anymore. Those that do are probably less scared of Trump than you folks.
Nah, I thought about it and I would feel way too dirty in that building.
I’d probably be asked to forge some petitions just to be allowed in.
Then, there would probably be some people saying, “shhh, let it go. We are for Warren and we need Biden to get knocked out.”
Yeah better to join your fellow Republicans at a Trump Hatefest.
At least you wouldn’t feel “dirty” amongst all those Republicans.
You know “good people,concerned about their country.”
I’d feel dirty anywhere involving the two major party these days.
Joe Walsh should sell soap on his campaign website. I’ll pass on the idea.
Think about it, the strategy of the Walsh campaign was to “punch Trump in the face” every day, and now Bill Weld has raised the bar by talking about execution.
What is the way to get the poll numbers to change? Present the facts. Do you legitimately think Trump did nothing wrong? On Friday you said this might all be “fake news.”
After the Mueller testimony, there was a poll that showed while Democrat support for impeachment dropped from 75 to 67 or so, Republican support increased from 10 to about 20 percent.
Present the facts.
Facts are immaterial when it comes to Trump…
non-response
I would expect nothing else from you but I thought jack at least would step up to the plate and explain just what exactly Democrats like him are afraid of as it relates to impeachment.
Or maybe he just thinks these things are ok for a President and you want those tactics held in reserve for when a Democrat next holds the office.
Here is an Op-ed, co-written by George Conway, that discusses how the Ukraine situation is worse than what happened with Russia:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/trump-has-done-plenty-to-warrant-impeachment-but-the-ukraine-allegations-are-over-the-top/2019/09/20/51eff90c-dbf1-11e9-bfb1-849887369476_story.html
Conway’s great but when are we going to hear elected Republicans currently in office echoing his sentiment?
When they see polling on the matter. Like other politicians.
Maybe that is already in the works. Nothing will happen though if Democrats give Trump a hall pass.
One can understand why Republicans would be afraid of their own base on this if nothing changes, but what polls are Democrats looking at to scare them about opposing Trump on something so fundamental.
Are you spooked that Rasmussen shows him going from 47 to 52 in a week? Do you even believe those numbers?
Ras polling HAS had Trump in the 50’s almost all along….
10% points higher than anyone else so they have no value…
Trump has internal polling for sure that has to worry him and his handlers …
Polling sidebar will be updated tonight
No,they have almost always had him in the 40s.
Typically, they are about 5 points higher than other polls.
He, he , he
We ALL know that their pills suck…
Does RCP STILL is their posts to inflate his numbers?
…On Monday night 145 Democrats backed impeachment, well over a majority of the caucus. But Pelosi has long said that any impeachment would need public support as well as backing from some Republicans.
Currently, she has neither….
More…
Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) is holding firm against impeaching Donald Trump, even as she comes under fresh pressure from frustrated progressives to take a stand on the president’s alleged political pressure campaign on Ukraine.
Reports that Trump in a July call pressured Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelensky to investigate former Vice President Joe Biden and his son Hunter Biden are raising howls from Democrats, who are casting it as Trump’s most egregious act in a long string of controversies.
But the startling new developments have not appeared to change Pelosi’s strategy on impeachment, a path she’s warned could be politically perilous for her party in 2020.
Sources close to Pelosi say, barring some earth-shattering development, the Speaker is unlikely to make a dramatic 180-degree turn on her impeachment position….
More…
Rasmussen is a joke of a pollster.
But why are Republicans who aren’t up for reelection til 2022 or 2024 so afraid of polls?
And why do you give them a pass?
Several more moderate Democrats from swing districts now back impeachment.
When are we going to see the first Republican House member to do so?
Months ago when Justin Amash then.
Then, he left the party after that.
He was told to leave by that profile in courage Kevin McCarthy.
There are still a lot of Democrats in Congress that oppose impeachment. I don’t Understand why these Democrats in Congress think that Republicans must support impeachment before they do. They are EVERY bit of the moral cowards that Republicans are – if not more so.
And many Republicans don’t want to be forced to vote on whether obvious corruption is okay either. The Republicans have to know that history won’t treat them kindly if they vote against impeachment when Democracy as we know it is clearly at risk.
The ‘lot’ of Democrats in Congress KNOW… like the Republicans… that Donald Trump, as fucked up as he is ?….
Is NOT gonna be convinced of ANYTHING…
Which would allow him to smile at the camera and say correctly that the efforts to convict him of anything is 0-2….
Republicans that would vote against Trump will getting unemployment checks in 2021…
YES….
Donald Trump SHOULD be removed for office….
Impeachment will NOT be the way…
My guess?
Pelosi is gonna stall un til the focus moves to the CR….
After which Congress goes on Holiday …..
After which the primaries kick in…
Case closed…
I really don’t think there are many Democrats in Congress opposed to impeachment Zreebs, they just don’t see the political practicality of an impeachment charge that will be rejected by the Senate.
But that appears, from my distance, to be changing now. Remembering that at least 217 Democrats plus Justin Amash would have to vote out the articles.
I think Pelosi was wise to hold off, just as Tip O’Neill waited on Nixon.
Two things, Trump cannot stop talking and will most likely give the Democrats more ammunition, and this will have to be a political/moral act only. None of the Republicans in the Senate will ever vote to convict, and that’s the greatest crime of all. UnAmerican, all of them.
The impeachment whip list.…
The link again from Axioz…
Rep. John Lewis (D-Ga.) on Tuesday endorsed launching impeachment proceedings against President Trump while speaking on the floor of the House…
More…
The media is acting like this is a up coming hurricane….
I still believe that Pelosi will NOT launch a actual impeachment inquiry…
She WILL have to figure out a way thru this…
Pelosi is making an announcement later today.
Tbe ground is ahifting James. I doubt Nancy is making thos speech to say nothing has changed.
Biden is expected to announce he will support an impeachment ‘inquiry’….
Trump is NOW pivoting to say he wanted the Ukraine money held up due to concerns about ‘corruption’ IN the Ukraine…..
MSNBC has the count at 163 of 235 House Democrats for ‘some sort of action’ on impeachment….
Again….
There is a nuanced call from some…
The guy who wrote articles for impeachment for the House…..
Rep. Brad Sherman (D-Ca)
Uses the words of an impeachment ‘investigation ‘….
He is NOT asking for actual action…
He IS asking for the legal right under a possible impeachment action to get information in front of the courts….
He wants the ‘facts’ to be revealed to the public…
He and others are aware the public polling does NOT support a impeachment of Donald Trump RIGHT NOW…
He and others are looking for media attention that is gaining now to unlodge Republican US Senators from their support of Trump…
New story line…
Trump Chief of staff Mulvaney actually ordered the money held up from the Ukraine…
Rudy on Fox admits that he was asked by the State Dept. to get involved in the Ukraine action…
This just gets BIGGER every hour…
Pelosi to make announcement this afternoon….
I DO support the House doing more to get info, but stopping short of a vote if the Senate will NOT convict….
The thread IS gonna run over….
I’ll have new one tonight…
Agree with ya Keith….
Could this be Pelosi’s stop gap move?
Politico
House Democrats may vote this week on a resolution condemning President Donald Trump’s alleged efforts to pressure Ukrainian officials to investigate Joe Biden
it appears Pelosi is gonna try to go directly at Trump’s Ukraine actions in order to give people something to chew on and by time against something she does not want…a impeachment trial…
Trump bowing to the Democratic pressure says he WILL release whole transcript ….
What does Pelosi do now?
Republicans will claim release of the transcript is enough. It’s not. The whistleblower complaint must also be released.
Pelosi is doing a sit down right now and she keeps mentioning 13 1/2 months…I don’t think she”s gonna bend on impeachment…
She keeps moving away from the question..
Jeffery Goldberg did the interview no Velshi
My mistake
Pelosi will probably announce some sort of ‘investigation’ for a impeachment ….
WE’ll see….
Braking ….
Whistleblower will go DIRECTLY to House Democrats…
Not the first time a blower will have caused an impeachment….
Too soon?
I can’t wait for all the Republicans like Lindsey Graham who wanted Clinton impeached overob vote against it now!
Ultimate plot twist:
Whistleblower= John Bolton
I just don’t see the point of impeachment until there’s some possibility of conviction. And even conviction would only shorten Trump’s tenure by a few months in favour of Mike Pence. (On Friday, we reached the 14-month interval until the next inauguration or re-inauguration.)
I guess that beyond simple and understandable horror of the ways and means by which Trump is raping and ruining this country, the pro-impeachers want the possibility of conviction in case wins the 2020 Electoral College. Any Senate verdict would most likely come just before or just after Election Day.
And while I have to defer to Bill Weld as a trained proscutor who has actually put people in federal prison, I can’t see Trump’s disloyal and outrageous behaviour as meeting the Constitution’s deliberately-narrow definition of treason in Article III, section 3:
“Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.
“The Congress shall have power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person attainted.”
There are Trunpian acts and communications that might well be considered as “adhering to their [the United States] Enemies, giving them aid and comfort, I can’t see how his pressure on the Ukrainian government would qualify, since the Ukraine is not an Enemy of the U.S.; in fact she receives direct (but limited) military aid directly from the US DoD , Congress and, at least so far, White House.
“Treason” is not the only reason allowed for impeachment. He can also be impeached for bribery and other high crimes or misdemeanors.
Trump appears to be more emboldened now that the Democrats won’t impeach. And he will say something along the line that if he did do something wrong, then the Democrats would have impeached him, so that fact that there is no effort proves he is innocent.
Democrats, Take the lead and impeach the bastard with or without GOP support. The Trump cancer is spreading.
Good post
Your first sentence says it all.
Despite some of the moralism we hear here, impeachment is implicitly not only a legal ,but also a political process.
Some may not like that ,but that doesn’t negate the reality.
In my view the Democrats shouldn’t push impeachment without substantial Republican support in both houses of Congress.
Since it is almost universally conceded that such is not going to happen?Then it’s not a viable option in my view.
I see where CG was demanding that I take a stand here.I just did.Unlike him ,now that I have ,I will not be rehashing it over and over unless the Republicans indicate interest as I outlined above.
I believe the chances of that happening are almost nil.
More Democrats went on the record for impeachment last night. Moderates from swing districts. I don’t buy it that every single Democrat needs to come out in favor before we expect a simgle elected Republican announce support for an inquiry. How tribalist do we need to get?
Yes the Republicans who refuse to stand up against corruption are cowards, but so are the Democrats who refuse to publicly support hearings. Is that controversial?
A LOT of Democrats HAVE called for hearings…
Morning…
Writing in the wee hours, I forgot to say that I’m all in favor of starting an impeachment investigation. Who knows what we (or rather Congress) will find?
James, where is that impeachment whip list ? (My own link at the NY Times is tied to my 5-story free limit, so if I gave it out, that limit might quickly be exhausted.)
Roll Call did a survey of Capitol Hill aides. (Warren led Biden among Democrat) and among Republican Congressional aides, only 61% said they wanted Trump to be re-nominated.
I just find that an interesting example of how the “Trump Base” and “Republican Base” are not necessarily the same thing.
I’ve Been saying THAT here for a LONG while….
Around the edges support slipping…