Anybody that tries to sell you on the idea that Democrats do NOT need white working class voters win the Presidency is blowing smoke up your rear…
Like it or not?
A moderate out reach will have to be extended by the Democratic nominee next year….
@Redistrict
Here’s why the “let’s win without working-class whites” mentality doesn’t hold water for Dems. That demog comprises 45% of all eligible U.S. voters, but:
61% in Wisconsin
61% in New Hampshire
56% in Michigan
56% in Minnesota
56% in Pennsylvania
47% in North Carolina
Good luck…
Twitter….
So the Democrats are going to lose.
No….
They ARE gonna win because they should being picking s centerist that CAN poach some non college whites …Not a hard progressive that who thumb their nose up at no college whites…
James is agaiin borrowing lines from Republicans. In what way are progressives thumbing their nose up at no college whites ? I can’t think of an example. But if you can think of an example, then it implies “moderates” (of which you consider Biden) are just doing it less so.
I assume that James does not consider me a working class white. either way, I sure as hell personally have more to lose with healthcare for all than I would have to gain. I also have more to lose with a more progressive income tax. it is exactly lower income people who have the most to gain with healthcare for all and a more progressive income tax,
And I can’t recall ever hearing a progressive talk about moderates with such intense hatred as how yotu talk about progressives,
And lastly I have nothing against “no college whites”. I do have a problem with people who are unwilling to do anything about gun violence. I do have a problem with people who are unwilling to do anything whatsoever to reduce their footprint. But it is people like you who are thumbing their nose or more likely doing a Kavensugh to the rest of us.
Z?
I wrote that Democrats NEED TO NOT look down their noses at working class whites…
I wrote that Democrats NEED TO elect a moderate Presidential nominee…
Democrats NEDD to GET ELECTED FIRST …..
THEN entertain ALL the stuff the House has pasted and has stayed right there in the HOUSE…
Excuse ME if I think the LONG Game is MOIRE important to win so the SHORT game can come into play…
Z?
It’s good to dream…
But the Republicans ARE steering the car …
Democrats need to get the wheel FIRST….
Not keep dancing with the left’s dreams in the back seat…
Amen to Pelosi who understands what the fuck IS important….
All I asked is HOW are progressives are looking down their noses at “working class whites”. They certainly don’t have the hysterical hatred towards moderates as you have toward them. They don’t lie about moderates as you lie about them. If anything, progressives are ESPECIALLY concerned about the powerless – which definitely includes working class whites.
Democrats do need to get elected. Let the candidates share what their vision is. At this point – and unlike most candidates – I really don’t know what Biden considers important other than maybe 1) both sides working together and 2)getting rid of Trump. Okay, I agree with him on both accounts. But, in the long term (which is really what we care about), that is not a winning message. Democrats have to stand for much more than that. Can Biden improve his message? I hope so, but I have my doubts. Time will tell. Right now, he can concentrate on giving prepared speeches. But in the long term, he will have to do better than that. Ultimately, people must go out and vote Democratic, and not just answer a question in a telephone survey.
One more thing, if you truly want Democrats to win as you claim, then maybe you should stop using the most extreme nonsensical Republican talking points like “Progressives look down their noses at working class whites” You already don’t have much of a reputation as someone who thoughtfully considers what he writes. You don’t want the reputation as a liar too.
Gonna keep writing my views hear Z….
Some of it is gonna knock Democrats just like I complained about Barack Obama , though I’d vote for him for President again in a heartbeat…
Heck, I even complain about somethings ole’ Joe does wrong also ….
Hope you keep your’s and let us know them…
That’s what the place IS about….
As requires constant reiteration when dealing with your various mindless, rants,
Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, no one is entitled to their own facts.
Zreebs simply asked ,how are progressives looking down their nose at working class Whites?Your answer?Well, you had none.Instead ,we are met with a bunch of conclusory statements that you read somewhere..
Not One actual fact.
You don’t like Elizabeth Warren,We all get that.Tell is all how ,and please be specific, how
she is “looking down her nose at working class Whites?”
What we have here is you essentially repeating something that has been pushed by Right Wing pro Trump sites wherein they keep repeating this line hoping some will buy into it.
As we see, you have.
Congratulations!
“bitter people who cling to their guns and religion,”
Did that qualify? In any event, he won. It’s amazing what a bad economy and the normal desire to change parties after 8 years can do.
Non college Whites voted for Trump last time.
Do you believe him to be a “Centerist”(sic)?
He ain’t a conservative.
Conservstive Republicans all think he is!
Actually, they don’t. At least not most of them. They just don’t care however. As long as he “owns the liberals”, that’s good enough.
Hey that’s been my line for awhile now.
You likely heard the concept detailed from me.
No,the first time I heard it clearly enunciated was when Rick Wilson ,the NeverTrump Republican ,lamented that Conservatism now meant nothing but opposition to liberals and the news media.
He was right.
Where have you gone William F Buckley?
Well he’s cutting taxes for the rich and deregulating polluters. Those are positions modern conservatives support.
Conservatives like Ted Cruz are happy with tbe results. The thing is now that right wingers like him are pointing to these results the independents who were told by the supposedly liberal mainstream media that Trump was a “different kind of Republican” will be paying attention too.
The ruse is up!
And hundreds of women slept with Ron Jeremy on camera for money. It doesn’t mean they enjoyed it or really wanted to.
How do you know they didn’t enjoy it?
Maybe some did, but that’s an entirely different kind of Hedgehog report!
Am I supposed to give a damn whether or not conservatives “like” supporting Trump?
You don’t give a damn whether conservatives die a horrible death or not so, no you aren’t supposed to I guess.
Now, there are conservatives in Congress and conservatives who work for Trump in his Administration.
For some, that is enough. Not for me.
None of that suggests that Trump himself is a conservative. If anything, he is a populist and a reactionary. That’s very different. Of course, he is mostly just about himself. Tossing bones to conservatives is how he obtained and holds on to power. It’s not rocket science in that regard.
So you say.
Lots of self described “conservatives “ say that Trump is who they are and that the preTrumpian “conservatives” are the frauds.
I think that’s a minority of Trump supporters/apologists.
Most who actually have an understanding of issues (not low info voters) admit freely that Trump is not a conservative.
Rush Limbaugh says he is fine with that and that conservatism has come and gone and can no longer get support at the polls to win (too many immigrants or something love government for it to ever work again), so that Trump’s populist appeal is instead the only option and that conservatives need to give up conservatism for populism because it is the only viable alternative able to stop the march of liberalism, etc.
You mean Limbaugh no longer has that Limbaugh Institute For Advanced Conservative Studies?
Gee, must have gone the way of Trump U!
No, he gave that up to sell Betsy Ross flag shirts.
Trumps wild rhetoric ,racially inflammatory words and cheap demagoguery certainly has populist antecedents.
His policies though have little to do with populism.
Who ever heard of a populist advocating tax cuts for the wealthy and defending corporate interests?
And who ever heard of a conservative (post WWII) advocating trade wars and dovish isolationism?
It works both ways.
The *only* consistent theme of Trump’s views on issues, going back to the 1980s is vicious opposition to trade and U.S. international engagements.
His Administration has also done such things as criminal justice reform and advocating mandatory paid family leave on businesses. Not exactly issues usually associated with conservatives.
He is going to attack Biden for being “much too tough” on African-American criminals.
(We can theorize it is because of the crush he has on his eldest daughter who leans left)
His supporters shrug or look the other way. They are fine with it if they think it can get him votes.
Isolationism was still prevalent in conservative circles into the fifties.
Ohio Sen. Robert Taft was highly skeptical of international agreements as the leading candidate for the Republican nomination in 1952.
Meanwhile polls show majority support for Trumps trade policies among many who describe themselves as “conservative.”
It appears to me that “Conservatism “ is being redefined or at least undergoing a split among those who describe themselves as such.
Pat Buchanan was anti trade and pro isolation. He won primaries as a Republican
I can see a post Trump world where “Conservatism” will be split between Traditional Conservatives and Trump Conservatives.
Since the ’50s then? I don’t think Taft was opposed to WWII like Lindbergh (aka America First) or anything like that. As we know, he did not get the nomination.
The protectionist anti-trade contingent on the right was always far in the minority before Trump.
It is true that the “right” is right now a Trump Cult of Personality party.
Buchanan won very few primaries. The one(s) he did were helped along by Democrat cross-over voters.
He was considered an extremist within the party. After he won NH in 1996, all sorts of conservatives pledged to support a third party candidate if he ever got nominated.
He left the Republican Party in 1999 after receiving virtual no support to run as a third party candidate.
Back then, Trump, he considered opposing him for the Reform nomination called him a “racist” and a “Hitler-lover” and an “anti-gay extremist.”
Now, Buchanan praises Trump in twice weekly columns and Trump re-Tweets him or cites him for support.
Buchanan describes himself as a paleo conservative .
The paleos have many of the attributes of traditional conservatism however tend to nationalism and skepticism of the value of free trade.
Trump,as President, certainly fits this mold
“Paleo-conservatism” is a relatively new term that was made up as sort of a antonym or throwback to counter the term “neo-conservative”, which many people continue to use despite the fact that it originated as an anti-Semitic dog whistle.
Trump is basically a George Wallace populist/reactionary, if anything.
While Trump echoes much of Wallace’s racial rhetoric he also supports tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans. That’s something George Wallace would NEVER have supported.
In his final years, George Wallace apologized for his past racist positions and supported Bob Dole, who ran for President on a platform of cutting taxes for all Americans.
Yet for some the “tax cut boogeyman” endures, regardless of narrative.
Actually, Wallace first formally apologized and renounced his racist past in the late ’70s (after saying he became a born-again Christian), some 20 years before he died.
Well while he was active politically Wallace was no economic conservative. He railed against corporate interests. Unlikely he ever advocated giving them tax cuts.
I bet he was relatively fairly business-friendly during his final “comeback” term in the ’80s.
But it’s good that he evolved for the better on multiple matters before his time was up.
Trump was a Democrat, Republican and Indie thru the years….
The Clintons’ went to one of his weddings…
There are pictures of Trump with Rev Al….
Donald Trump NEVER had any politics except what could make him more money…
THAT has continued to this day as he pumps the US Taxpayer by having us pay for his and military visits to his property…
people here gave me grief because the early Trump as President actually strayed to say things a Dem would say…
Saving people’s healthcare ins
supporting DACA
Bringing the troops home….
ALL THAT is gone now…
There are no vestiges of anything Democratic in the man now…
It is good that Wallace repented for his previous racism. It’s unlikely we will ever see that self reflection from Trump
Agree
I think that might be a question that could be partly answered by looking at his record on taxes, spending, business and the economy as Governor of Alabama.
I don’t think he would have demonstrated the same populist, egalitarian urge that, say, Huey (Every Man a King) Long did. But I could be wrong, of course: perhaps he was a mild reformist while in office.
The standard biography on Wallace is titled…
George Wallace,American Populist
The title says it all.
The term “Populist” has become so bastardized over the past fifty years or so that,like “ conservative,” lacks any real meaning and instead is simply used as a descriptive word for analysts and journalists to throw around with abandon.
Whoever heard of a supposed “ Populist” ( Trump) whose major legislative initiative with a massive tax cut for the wealthy?
To my knowledge “neo-conservative” did not originate as an anti-Semitic dog-whistle, whatever it may have later become for the Steve Bannons of this unfortunate world.
I heard my comrade Michael Harrington — the leading democratic socialist thinker of his time, author of The Other America and certainly no enemy of the Jews since he worked and socialized (!) with them all the time — ruefully accept fatherhood for the word, saying he coined it to describe people (often ex-leftists) with a very different domestic agenda such as Irving Kristol, Seymour Martin Lipset and the group that founded The Public Interest. It was only later that neo-conservatism applied to foreign policy issues such as internationalism and support for Israel. See the very full discussion in Wikipedia here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoconservatism