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Censure President Donald Trump?…Open Thread for 9/26/19….

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That’s a suggestion from a piece in the Boston Globe….(Others have suggested the same)

Give the guy something only one past President in history has worn….

A formal vote of disapproval...

A least he couldn’t say Congress  gave him a clean bill of health thru Mueller and this Ukraine caper…(He ain’t gonna be convicted of anything by the Republican majority  US Senate…)

It would offer Republican lawmakers a middle ground, maybe?

But….Would the hungry Democratic House lawmakers accept this?

Impeachment is now officially on the table when it comes to President Trump — but congressional censure may end up being the better option. No, censure wouldn’t result in Trump’s removal from office, but in all likelihood, neither will impeachment.

Censure has this advantage: Unlike impeachment, it would be much harder for congressional Republicans to duck, dodge, or sidestep to avoid condemning President Trump’s gross abuse of presidential power.

That is not to downplay Trump’s extraordinary attempt to enlist President Volodymyr Zelensky of Ukraine in an effort to generate dirt, or the illusion of dirt, on former vice president Joe Biden and his son Hunter. Or the White House’s apparent effort to cover it up.

Trump’s Nixonian effort has changed things dramatically. Most important, it has pushed Speaker Nancy Pelosi over the impeachment-inquiry threshold.

That obviously worries Trump in a major way. Pelosi is someone he respects and perhaps even fears, which puts her in a rarefied category indeed. For her part, the speaker obviously feels that an impeachment inquiry is the lever she needs to force the White House to comply with the House’s legitimate demands for information, be it through testimony of administration officials or the release of documents.

But starting an impeachment inquiry — and conducting an exhaustive investigation of Trump’s and his administration’s misdeeds — shouldn’t automatically lead to impeachment. Impeachment, after all, is a momentous step. Despite attempts to fit articles of impeachment into a legal framework, it is ultimately a political decision about what conduct justifies removing an elected president. (In this case, a president elected by an Electoral College, but not a popular vote, majority, though that doesn’t negate the larger point.) It’s a political judgment that will initially be made by Congress, but one whose conclusion will likely hinge on the sentiment of voters….

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image..CNN

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  2. Yeah Andrew Jackson got one of those.

    Had no effect upon his popularity among his followers.Indeed Jackson’s supporters are comparable in many ways to Trumps.

    Fervently supportive,impervious to his mistakes and vile attacks on others, dismissive of those who appeared more educated.

    Trumps supporters will snearbat a censure as nothing more than a political attack by his (and their) perceived enemies(them libruls).

    In the end?A meaningless gesture.

  3. Well it looks like the treasonous NRA is going to be assisting Trump in fighting impeachment.
    And what will the Republicans have to say about that. My guess..crickets.

    • We have been told here that the NRA is a “non partisan” organization.

      Gee, can this be true?Im shocked!

      • More reasons for partisan Democrats to be happy that pro-Trump money and resources will be diverted from other electoral causes.

        I don’t know why you guys are fighting this impeachment thing.

        Enjoy the weekend.

        • The “fight” is over.

          Pelosi has given her blessing .

          The votes appear to be there to launch a formal investigation.

          My position has always been that it was a waste of time in that it is pointless to launch a legal investigation when the outcome is self evident.Thats still my position.

          Your position is prevailing at this time.So, why do you still claim a “fight” is going on?

          Have a good weekend!

  4. Ben Rhodes

    Boris facing investigation. Trump facing impeachment. Bibi facing indictment. Not a good week for right wing wannabe strongmen.

    twitter,..

  5. I suspect that Pelosi’s approval is up sharply because she now supports impeachment.

    And since you have used opinion polls to explain why Democrats should do something – such as vote for Biden or against impeachment, you should ask youtself why.

    • Her approval is up because she knows what she’s doing on this issue, not simply because she now favors impeachment (something I think she always favored, but found the reasons for doing so lacking and unconvincing). Her approval is up because she is a master tactician who has an understandable irrefutable reason to move forward with an inquiry.

      This is cut & dried, Trump has admitted he broke the law while in office. All the right wing obfuscation in the world cannot excuse his acts. Rudy can scream and tell people to shut up all he likes, this is a crime.

      And if the Senate doesn’t vote to convict then they are siding with treason. Collins, Gardner, McSally, and Tillis all have a public choice to make before they face the voters. This isn’t the same as voting to put a grab ass beer lover on the a Supreme Court, it’s about suborning treason.

      I agree with Scott, as this heats up some of them will retire along with a record number of House Members.

      • Pelosi knows what she is doing – and she has known what she was doing for a long time.

        Her approval is up because she now supports impeachment. Your comment doesn’t explain why her approval was lower before.

        • I wasn’t trying to contradict you, those six points come from an energized Democratic base that wants to get this treasonous Republican out of the White House.

          My point, Pelosi wasn’t going to jump at the emotional “do the right thing” argument until she had the goods.

          I am glad she took her time because she knows what she’s doing.

          Compare her with Kevin McCarthy and his shit show interview defending the Mango Mussolini.

    • Howie Kurtz

      .@LarrySabato says impeachment will deprive the Democratic candidates of oxygen because “there’s only so much airtime and people are getting tired of the campaign.” #Mediabuzz

    • Thank you!

      The year is now 5780.

      It is nice to know that I am back living again in the ’80s. I was too young back then to appreciate it.

      The music and the President were much better. (Chicago Bears defense is reminiscent though.)

  8. Story on Political wire this morning on how the GOP is ensuring the convention is free of any speeches that are not glowing endorsements of Trump.

    This party is all in. And it’s up to every voter to cast a vote for the one 0ersom that can defeat the Trumpiblicans–the Democratic nominee

  9. Yeah what the point of Weld, Sanford and Walsh even running?

    If they win any delegates they won’t count their votes and they are not going to allow any nominating speeches.

    Of course the conventions have been nothing but infomercial campaign style events for years.

    An anachronism really.

  10. In 1992 Pat Buchanan spoke at the GOP Convention after challenging President Bush in the primaries and the whole convo was tempered for his speech on the “culture war”.

      • Headline!
        Donald Trump curses like the rest of us!

        President Trump blasted House Democrats’ investigations as “BULLSHIT,” as his furor with the impeachment probe reaching new heights.

        Said Trump: “The Do Nothing Democrats should be focused on building up our Country, not wasting everyone’s time and energy on BULLSHIT, which is what they have been doing ever since I got overwhelmingly elected in 2016, 223-306,” he wrote, incorrectly stating the breakdown of electoral college votes he and Hillary Clinton received.”

        He added: “Get a better candidate this time, you’ll need it!”

        Politicalwire…

          • The man is lost….

            President Trump told reporters on the South Lawn of the White House Thursday that China should launch an investigation into Joe and Hunter Biden, though he noted that hasn’t yet asked Chinese President Xi Jinping to do so….

            More…

            • Sbato’s US Senate changes….

              — Nationalization is an increasingly important trend in American election outcomes. It’s hard to think of a more nationalizing issue than a presidential impeachment.

              — Vulnerable members on both sides in the Senate will have a lot to consider if and when they have to cast a vote on convicting President Trump in a potential Senate impeachment trial.

              — There are two Senate ratings changes this week, one benefiting each side. The most vulnerable senator, Sen. Doug Jones (D-AL), moves from Toss-up to Leans Republican, while Sen. Thom Tillis (R-NC) moves from Leans Republican to Toss-up…

              More…

  11. In a new book about the Trump campaign by James Stewart.

    Steve Bannon admits that one of the favorite hobgoblins of the Right Wing ,the “ Deep State” doesn’t exist .It was just something made up.Bannon adds that it is believed only by “ nutjobs.”

    Implicitly then, Bannon ,an early Trumper,concedes that a goodly part of the Republican Party and the Right Wing Media is composed of “ nutjobs.”

    There ,of course ,has never been any evidence of such a thing but in the world of conspiracy theorists in other words, Trumpworld,the existence of such is a given.

    So here we have one of the originators of the baloney saying yeah it was a bunch of bs.

    • And THERE lies the problem…

      Trump and his cronies just DO make shut up….

      Say it to the media….

      They broadcast it….

      And it becomes something the media and Democrat’s fight…

      But in the process?

      The same lame Bull Shit gets REPEATED over and OVER changing the REALITY….

      And it WORKS!

    • There is a Deep State, consisting of all the non-political career Federal civilian and military employees who have taken an oath not to King and Country, not to the President and not to some Leader, but to uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States, and believe in it strongly enough to speak and act accordingly.

      This is what troubles, frustrates, enrages and frightens the Administration so much. It would much rather pursue the gradual political corruption and purge of civil service which has occurred in (e.g.) Venezuela and Turkey.

  12. North of the Border, Up Canada Way.

    Justin Trudeau’s Liberal Party of Canada has regained parity with, and even a minuscule lead over, the Conservatives of Andrew Scheer, according to the Canadian Broadcasting Corp’s Poll Tracker today.

    Poll Averages

    Liberal 34.0% up +0.3
    Conservative 33.6% down -0.5
    NDP (New Democrats) 14.2% up +0.5
    Green 9.6% down -0.4
    Bloc Québécois 5.2% unchanged ±0.0
    People’s Party 2.5% down -0.1
    Others 0.8% up +0.1

    Probability of winning

    35% Probability of the Liberals winning a majority
    32% Probability of the Liberals winning the most seats but not a majority
    25% Probability of the Conservatives winning the most seats but not a majority
    7% Probability of the Conservatives winning a majority

    The regional picture

    The Conservatives are ahead in Western Canada while the Liberals are ahead in Ontario, Quebec and Atlantic Canada, which gives them their seat lead. The New Democrats are on track to lose most or all of their seats in Quebec but can hold on to some ridings in B.C. and Ontario. The Greens are holding double-digits in B.C., where they can win seats, as well as in Atlantic Canada. The Bloc Québécois has picked up support and is on track to potentially double the 10 seats it won in 2015. The People’s Party has yet to show the concentration of support in any region of the country needed to win a seat, beyond potentially leader Maxime Bernier’s.

    i.e. the Tories in Canada seem to face the same problem as Democrats in the U.S.A. : A federal system that can turn a national popular plurality into a legislative (or Electoral College) minority. Note that (like the SNP in Scotland or Plaid Cymru in Wales), the Bloc Québécois does not contest seats outside the Province of Quebec.

    https://newsinteractives.cbc.ca/elections/poll-tracker/canada/

  13. A second whistleblower, with first hand information, has now come forward. Watching the Republicans twist and sweat to defend the increasingly indefensible will be pathetic, but entertaining.

  15. Ginger Baker the drummer of Cream, the trio that is considered the first hard rock supergroup ,has passed away.

    Along with Bassist Jack Bruce (who passed away in 2014) and guitarist Eric Clapton, the short lived group became legends in their own time.

    R-I-P

  16. Joe Walsh & Mark Sanford appeared together this morning on either CNN’s State of the Union with Jake Tapper or ABC’s This Week with Geo. Stephanopoulos. For whatever reason, Trump’s other GOP challenger, Sen. Mitt Romney, was not there.

    Joe Walsh took a much more vigorous line against the President than did Mark Sanford. Walsh seeming to say that it was all but decided that impeachment was warranted, although he did concede that the Congressional inquiries should continue. Sanford seemed to be saying that Presidential acts and words certainly demanded the beginnings of a formal inquiry, but seemed to waffle on whether whats known so far proves an impeachment necessary.

    • Joe Walsh just knocked the hell out of Sanford in the mini “debate.” Sanford looked dazed. If only he could get face to face with Trump…

      • Sanford always looks sort of dazed to me.

        Even when he’s talking to someone one on one.

        I remember seeing him at an event about twenty years ago during his first Congressional term.Had an opportunity to speak to him and I thought he was gonna nod off.

        Then again, maybe he found me boring.

        Imagine that!

    • I think you mean Bill Weld though.

      Weld has gone further than either of them saying Trump has committed treason and could be subject the ultimate penalty.

      • I respect Sanford for running but he needs to take a stand on matters like this. I realize it might dredge up some uncomfortable memories since he was almost impeached himself as Governor and frankly probably deserved it.

          • Here’s the YouTube link to State of the Union with Jake Tapper, Mark Sanford, Joe Walsh & Amy Klobuchar (written transcript apparently not yet available):

            • And, yes, I was confusing Mitt Romney (who’s not yet if ever joining the GOP nomination race) with Bill Weld (who is).

              I’m in Rhode Island, where it’s so very easy to confuse all those far-away politicians from Massachusetts. ;–)

  17. Conservative columnist Jonah Goldberg surprisingly admitted in a column today that Republicans have adopted a cult of personality as regards Donald Trump.

    Goldberg is not a Never Trumper and ,while not an admirer at all ,often defends him.

    Sometimes,I guess one has just had enough.

      • The reason I don’t call him a NeverTrumper is that he often writes columns essentially blaming the Democrats for Trump or something he does and admittedly he supports almost all of Trumps domestic policies.

        The real NeverTrumpers are focused on only one thing,getting rid of Trump.

        Goldberg ,while anti Trump is more nuanced in my view,

        The term anti Trump Republican may be more appropriate.

  18. Also, Howie Kurtz ,the media critic over at Fox News ,who spends most of his time deflecting media reporting of Donald Trumps outrageous behavior and rhetoric, was the object of a crazy attack by the unhinged consigliere of the Trump “ family,” Rudy Giuliani.

    Finally Kurtz had to cut him off after the nutjobs raving and ranting got too much .

    Kurtz will likely be back next week lamenting the “unfairness “ of the media when they report what Trump says and does .He knows where his paycheck comes from.

  19. [Canadian party] Leaders clash on climate, immigration, abortion and Bill 21 in intense debate

    On crowded stage, 6 leaders exchange attacks and sharp one-liners in only official English-language debate

    Peter Zimonjic · CBC News ·
    Posted: Oct 07, 2019 6:15 PM ET

    https://i.cbc.ca/1.5312907.1570509832!/cpImage/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/16x9_780/fedelxn-campaign-20191007.jpg
    From left, Green Party leader Elizabeth May, Liberal leader Justin Trudeau, Conservative leader Andrew Scheer, People’s Party of Canada leader Maxime Bernier, Bloc Quebecois leader Yves-Francois Blanchet and NDP leader Jagmeet Singh pose for a photograph before the Federal leaders debate in Gâtineau, Québec, on Monday, Oct. 7, 2019. (Justin Tang/The Canadian Press)

    The six main federal party leaders battled it out in the English language debate in Gatineau, Que., Monday night, exchanging answers and accusations as they looked to bust out from the pack in the final two weeks of the campaign.

    The only English debate with all six party leaders saw the discussion range across five topics including: affordability and economic insecurity, environment and energy, Indigenous issues, leadership in Canada and on the world stage and polarization around human rights and immigration.

    On the first topic of the evening, leadership, Conservative Leader Andrew Scheer came out swinging for the fences, ignoring the theme to instead launch a heated attack on Liberal Leader Justin Trudeau who he called a “fraud” who does not deserve to be prime minister.

    “Mr Trudeau you are a phoney and you are a fraud and you do not deserve to govern this country,” Scheer said, accusing Trudeau of only pretending to stand up for Canada.

    “You know he’s very good at pretending things,” Scheer said. “He can’t even remember how many times he put blackface on because the fact of the matter is he’s always wearing a mask.

    “He puts on a reconciliation mask and then fires the attorney general, the first one of Indigenous background, he puts on a feminist mask and then fires two strong female employees for not going along with his corruption.”

    CTV’s Lisa Laflamme, one of five moderators for the debate, turned to People’s Party of Canada Leader Maxime Bernier and asked him if he had the temperament for leadership, given the off-colour comments he has been making on Twitter about climate change, immigration and his opponents.

    “You must tell the truth to Canadians if you want to be the leader of this country and what I’m saying about extreme multiculturalism is not the way to build this country,” Bernier replied. “Yes this country is a diverse country and we must be proud of that. But we don’t need legislation like the multiculturalism act to tell us who we are.”

    NDP Leader Jagmeet Singh said the temperament for leadership requires a leader to look for things that unite Canadians, rather than divide them.

    “That’s what a leader does and a leader works for the people who need help, not helping those at the very top which we’ve seen with governments in Ottawa for far too long,” Singh said.

    Conservative Leader Andrew Scheer says Liberal Leader Justin Trudeau is always wearing a mask at the outset of the English-language debate in Gatineau, Que. 0:35
    Bernier interrupted Singh and then went on to interrupt and talk over every other leader, including Scheer, who called out Bernier for his anti-immigrant positions.

    “You can be proud of Canada’s history, you can be proud of our identity, you can be proud of the things we’ve done and accomplished in the world while at the same time welcoming people from all around the world,” Scheer said.

    Leadership is service: May
    Trudeau said the temperament for being a good leader meant looking for things that unite Canadians rather than taking every opportunity to find things that will set one Canadian against another.

    The Liberal leader said Bernier is ” trying to make people more fearful about the migrations that are happening in the world and the opportunities around globalization and our ability to continue to redefine every single day what it is to be Canadian, what it means to be Canadian.”

    Bernier shot back saying that wanting to discuss immigration did not mean he did not love Canada.

    “Mr. Bernier, your role on this stage tonight seems to be to say publicly what Mr. Scheer thinks privately,” Trudeau said.

    Green Party Leader Elizabeth May said leadership is about service and that anyone wanting to be prime minister has to view running the country as a service for Canadians.

    ‘Your role on this stage seems to be to say publicly what Mr. Scheer thinks privately,’ Liberal Leader Justin Trudeau says to People’s Party Leader Maxime Bernier during the English-language debate in Gatineau, Que. 1:07

    The second segment of the debate centred on polarization, human rights and immigration…

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/six-leaders-debate-english-live-1.5312479

  20. It HAS come to this ….

    Trump is discussing giving his White House staff lie detector tests….

    Not HIMSELF….

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