It’s 24 hours after Joe Biden’ s second hiccup since he started running for President….
The first was the ‘hands’ issue, which has faded away….
Now we have abortion….
Straight up?
Joe Biden does NOT favour abortion himself….
But?
Joe Biden does support the Roe vs Wade Supreme Court decision ….
Then there is the Hyde Amendment…
Which limits federal funds for abortions…
The media has something to bite at now…
Other Democratic candidates , who haven’t been able to touch Biden , are now throwing down against his position …They are joined by the pro-choice community …
Hmmm?
Will this help the others get some traction against Biden who leads the closest Bernie Sanders by almost 2-1 in most states?
Presidential front-runner Joe Biden faced swift and fierce backlash from fellow Democrats Wednesday after his campaign confirmed that he supports a four-decade-old ban on federal funding for abortion that much of his party has vowed to overturn.
Biden’s support of the Hyde Amendment, which is renewed annually through congressional spending bills, underscores a generational and cultural divide that’s separating the former vice president from the rest of the 2020 Democratic field….
…
During the 2016 presidential campaign, Hillary Clinton called for the repeal of the Hyde Amendment and, for the first time, a commitment to repeal appeared in the Democratic Party platform. That shift reflected in part a simple evolution of the Democratic coalition and in part the growing realization that being “pro-choice” didn’t mean much without a willingness to fight for increasingly imperiled practical access to abortion services.
So Joe Biden is definitely swimming against the tide in reinforcing support for Hyde, in a way that will enable reminders that he once didn’t support abortion rights at all and also opposed rape-and-incest exceptions from the Hyde ban. It doesn’t help that he appears to have recently flip-flopped:
…
Assuming there was a political calculation behind Biden’s positioning on Hyde, it’s probably based on polling showing that the amendment is popular among the general electorate and commands significant support from a minority of Democrats, too. But like every question involving abortion policy, measures of public opinion vary according to the framing, and the idea of denying abortion services to women who happen to be poor isn’t popular at all.
Could this issue be the one that finally brings inchoate ideological resistance to Joe Biden’s candidacy into sharp focus and erodes his rank-and-file support? It’s hard to say yet….
image…waashingtonpost.com
The fact that Biden is the *only* one of the 24 Democrats to have this position is very surprising and quite disappointing. The rest are certainly taking a stance that would have always been considered fairly extreme.
This is a big problem for Biden in regards to the primary, especially the sloppy way he has already handled it. I hope he will stand firm on principle, but the attacks he will receive from the base of the party will be so intense, he is almost certain to flip-flop and capitulate to them.
This will then make it much harder for him to actually get votes in the general election that he would otherwise get.
If he would stand firm and wins the nomination without changing on this, that would speak well to his general election positioning on the issue, but clearly as we see here, with all the Zreebs and Democrat Socialists feeling so strongly that Biden is wrong and every single one of the other 23 candidates on the other side, the pressure on Biden to cave will be immense.
We’ll see….
It’s all part of the run for the job….
People thought he was done with the ‘Hands’, Climate Change wording, and Crime Bill….
Now this?
I doubt it…
Things pile up of course.
He’s going to actually have to defend this position and it’s hard to see how he finds the words to do that which do not trigger the base of the party into seething anger.
He’s STILL Democrats BEST hope against Trump….
But?
Democrats could screw things up….
Anyone,to whom opposition to abortion is their major issue,is never going to vote for Biden or any of the potential Democratic candidates whatever his or their position on any abortion related topic ,including the Hyde Amendment.
Any voter ,to whom opposition to abortion is the issue on which their vote is being cast,will vote for Donald J Trump or an even more Right Wing Nobody.
This is self evident and not even worthy of discussion
I disagree. I think there are a lot of moderate and right-leaning people who very much want to vote against Trump. That is why you are seeing Biden doing so well currently in polls and in states like Texas.
But somebody who would demand that taxpayers pay for abortion is just a bridge too far for many and a lot of those people will then vote for Trump simply to prevent it.
There is a lot of nuance on the abortion issue in terms of public opinion, that the zealots do not realize. Public financing of elective abortion is a very unpopular position. Right now, this is a Democrat primary problem for Biden above all else.
At this point it is also about Biden’s willingness to be stand by his own values or if he will just prove himself as someone who can be run over when times get tough.
That game can be played all day with countless things…
“Anybody who holds this position will vote for Trump anyway…”
etc. etc.
If so, then impeachment shouldn’t even be a concern if “anyone opposed to impeachment is already going to vote for Trump.”
CG, I’m pretty sure your opposition to abortion is nor based on economic grounds. But the argument that taxpayers ahouldn’t have to pay for it is weak. The cost of society caring for an unwanted baby is many, many times the cost of an abortion, especially since unwanted children are more likely to find themselves in prison.
So, when would you institute a cut-off date for the mercy killing of poor children?
2 years old? 5 years old?
Poor wonen who don’t wish to carry an unwanted child to term will find s way to get it done and there’s not a damn thing you can do about it.
Unfortunately in those scenarios they are likely to cause significsnt harm to their own bodies too.
He, he, he….
Straight to the point, eh Jack?
I don’t see Biden actually ‘hurt’ from this…
There are gonna be a lot more things thrown at Biden to try to dethrone him from the top of the Democratic hill…
So far?
He’s holding his own….
I completely agree with Jack on this issue, the hardcore abortion opponents (the ones who call the removal of a clump of cells from a woman’s body murder, while remaining silent on children in cages) will never vote for a candidate who supports Roe vs Wade. Never. They’re simply too fucking nuts to understand the true meaning of pro-life. Because if they will support a criminal President who brags about grabbing pussy and cheats on his wife, they will vote for anyone who will appoint so called pro-life judges (whether they are guilty of sexual assault or not).
I logged on at James’ request, and want to correct the record here as it relates to the Hyde Amendment. Because I am probably the only poster here that actually knew Henry, and, believe it or not, I liked him. He was a kind, but flawed, individual. One of those Republicans who were in the “do as I say, not as I do” wing of the Party.
But first it is truly good to see Jack posting again here. I was a little worried about him given the abrupt way he exited the posting scene. And, if possible I would like James to forward Jack my contact information since I have a potential client in South Carolina and I will most likely be in Charleston at some point in the future. It would be great to meet him for a drink and a political chat.
But, back to the Hyde Amendment. Almost all of the Democrats running for President who now sit in Congress have voted for the Hyde Amendment language since it is included in all spending bills. A Hobson’s choice. So, some of the other candidates are being slightly hypocritical in their criticism. Of course not as hypocritical as those people that continue to call themselves pro-life who also support Trump’s immigration policy, unregulated guns, and the electric chair.
I also find it humorous when men discuss abortion. If you are so opposed to abortion, go get a vasectomy, they can be reversed if you ever get a wife. Right?
Should medicare pay for vasectomies? I would say yes, just like it should pay for an abortion. But, both Roe and the Hyde Amendment are the law of the land, and that won’t change until the Senate and White House change. Something I am working right now.
I need to go, since work calls, and it’s a beautiful day in wine country. Have a good day everyone.
Good to hear from you.
Yeah ,doing much better health wise.Doctor said I Never was as bad off as I convinced myself I was.
Glad to see that my return encouraged others to return.
Don’t make yourself scarce,
Why do you consider it an extreme position that a woman who does not even have the financial ability to support a baby should be forced to carry it. It is bad enough to have unwanted children; There are lots of those that no one will adopt. it is even worse to have an unwanted child who doesn’t have a parent with the financial ability to care for it.
Adoption is always an option, and no, I disagree with you. Death is worse than poverty.
Adoption is great if a pregnant woman chooses to carry a fetus to term.
Her choice. Not yours.
Then don’t ask for my money to pay for what I consider murder.
Your money is not used…
THAT IS what Joe Biden has supported….
THAT IS the current law….
Well, I agree with Biden on the Hyde Amendment.
Your other readers and the overwhelming majority of Democrats do not.
That is why I think Biden is going to cave on the matter strictly for political expedience.
We’ll see…
Yeah ,and even though you agree with him on the Hyde Amendment ,you would never vote for him.
That’s my point.
Opposition to abortion is a litmus test issue with you.
You won’t vote for Trump cause you despise him but you will end up voting for some other Right Wing candidate or write in one.
No,I don’t believe that there are a whole lot of ,as you define them “moderates and conservatives” who dislike Trump who are going to decide to not vote for Biden but vote for a guy they despise because of his support or opposition to the Hyde Amendment..
However, in the broader narrative of yours, which is that ALL the potential Democratic candidates are riddled with”problems’ as potential opponents to Trump?Your position vis a vis Biden and this issue is thoroughly understandable.
CG are you going to just throw your vote away agsin in 2020?
My vote in Illinois on the Presidential level has no bearing. I will vote my conscience.
I know Scott that you have maintained that you have no regret for all the third-party Presidential votes you made as a younger person. You don’t feel your Perot or Nader voters were throw-aways.
CG has become the resident “contrarian” here and over @HHR.
Here?He plays the role of a pox on all the Democrats running ,explaining how each and every statement or move they make increases the chances of their losing to Trump.
Over @ HHR Hes What passes for a “librul”(which shows how Trump cultish that site is) ,essentially just dinging the various Cultists there for their support of the hated Trump.
He’s become sort of like the libertarians.,lecturing everybody how wrong they are,secure in the knowledge that whoever wins?
It ain’t my fault!I was against them!
Great fun!
No comparison. The alternatives in the elections of 1992 and 2000 were nowhere near as odious as Trump.
Those of us who seriously want this embarrassment gone will be casting our votes for someone who can actually beat him.
Yes, I am a contrarian everywhere I go. What can I say? It doesn’t look like I will have a lot of political friends when I depart this earth.
But in the meantime, I actually have to get back to work today!
Total hypocrisy Scott. And you already realize that.
I’m not a “normal” example. I have other litmus tests and other issues with Biden. But plenty of others would vote him as long as he does not come across as an extremist or a tool of the special interests.
and no, plain opposition to abortion is not a litmus test for me.
I would vote (and may do so) for a pro-choice person against Trump just because I dislike Trump so much.
Partial birth abortion though or getting rid of the Hyde Amendment? Bridge too far for me. Just being honest. You have accused me before of lying about these sort of things.
Given the state of Democracy today, and the damage Trump and his enablers are doing to our government, this coming election is a binary decision, a choice between only two people.
A choice between Trump and a Democrat. Any other choice is a vote for Trump.
Yes I agree.
The only issue is getting rid of this cancer on the body politic.
Everything else pales by comparison.
I don’t even live in a swing state, so let’s stop pretending my vote matters.
jack admitted he was going to vote for pro-Trump Republicans in South Carolina in 2018 and had no regret for doing so. Again, the issue is hypocrisy.
I am not going to cast a Presidential vote for someone I consider either morally, ethically, or ideologically unworthy. I will overlook a lot of things just to vote against Trump (or against a horrible Democrat), but not that.
So, while I consider it as invalid the complaint that I will almost certainty not vote for the Democrat, it is at least slightly more valid than what I hear at HHR about how by not voting for Trump is means I am ok with socialism.
So, at least you guys have that for now.
It’s also a bit curious that Scott and jack seem to have such a problem with me “throwing my vote away” but have not a word to say when james, whom claims to be a committed Democrat, says he could never vote for Bernie Sanders against Trump and can never vote for Kirsten Gillibrand against Trump, and perhaps the list extends even further..
You gotta worry about folks like him first staying in the tent before you can think about peeling off a genuine conservative like me!
I don’t care who you vote for.
I was just commenting on what you yourself have said.
I said you were a contrarian.You agreed.
While I might be a “contrarian” my views, remain firmly in the American mainstream.
If the Democrats were to nominate someone I could at the least hold my nose and vote for, I would, against Trump.
It doesn’t seem like they are capable of that. Saying that taxpayers should fund abortions is just an extreme position. Committed pro-choice people should not be hypocrites and offer to pay for poor women to have these abortions but they aren’t willing to do that.
I paid no attention to James claims.
His hatred for Trump is well known.
He will hold his nose and vote for the Democratic nominee in my view,his protestations to the contrary notwithstanding.
Having said that He don’t believe that either Sanders nor Gillibrand will be the nominee.
The only problem is the only person the Democrats could nominate whom you would vote for would be someone not many Democrats could vote for.
I think Sanders might possibly become the nominee and that james is totally serious that he will not vote for him. He certainly wouldn’t be alone among anti-Trump Democrats who would not be able to vote for Sanders.
As for Gillibrand, she seems to be an extreme long-shot, but the point holds. james has said he wouldn’t elect her “Garbage Woman.” She might be the VP nominee.
If Democrats truly thought Trump was so bad, they would have no problem voting for the same Democrat I would vote for.
It’s not even like I would be asking for much.
-Keep the Hyde Amendment
-Oppose third trimester partial-birth abortions
-Admit the Iran Nuclear Deal was horrible
-Support Israel
-Tell Al Sharpton to GFH
That’s basically it.
Hypothetically, if the choices were Donald Trump (R) and Joe Lieberman (D), how many of you would “throw your vote away?”
Among the registered voters here who claim to hate Trump, I would suspect at least 2 or 3.
I don’t quite understand your point;however,I would vote for Lieberman if he became the Democratic nominee.
Of course we both know such would never happen.
THAT is NOT the answer CG….
The law of the land protects women’s right’s to control THEIR bodies….
Biden,for all the noise in the last 24 hours, supports Roe vs Wade ….
You don’t seem to understand the problem that Democrats have with Biden has nothing to do with Roe vs. Wade and has everything to do with the belief that abortions should be free and paid for by taxpayers.
There are already plenty of children that no one wants to adopt – especially after the child reaches age 5.
So, if it is a horrible thing for a child to grow up in poverty and if they are likely to go to prison, etc, would you support parent choosing to euthanize their children? Sometimes peoples economic circumstances will take a sudden downswing. At what age do you think the child should have a say in the matter?
Speaking for myself, I would choose to be aborted if I was not wanted. And I also support assisted suicide for adults who choose that option.
What about parental selected euthanasia for children? You seem to be making a case for it.
No
Nowhere in CG’s silly analogies of abortion to child murder does he ever mention the rights of the woman involved. As long as babies incubate inside of a person with rights YOU have no right to violate said person’s rights. It’s tjat simple.
Are we talking about the generic topic of abortion where we disagree with constitutes a human life or are we talking about the Hyde Amendment?
If we disagree about what a life is, it is pointless to try to argue about it online. You are old enough to know that by now.
CG should Medicaid pay fir Viagra?
No
I agree.